@panther I did not know this, thank you
J1 attack on the Phillippines
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The US can also move the carrier to Johnston Island to catch the fighter.
As Japan, I don’t mind if the US does that because it reduces the ability of both to project threat on J2 and J3.
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Good point! But if the IJN is strong in the Carolines, that does make that move suicidal.
They could also get to Wake and utilise the airbase there to defend the fleet. I guess the merit of that varies with how many extra ships/planes the IJN can get there vs Johnston Is.
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It depends. If IJN has a loaded CV at Carolines they can hit the CV/FTR with it, if not whatever it sends is dead in the counterstrike. Of course if they do have those planes there, then the allies get better odds in Yunnan and might be able to hold it.
Japan really does not want to be trading ships with the US before it can equalize income. It cannot afford to do so while making the progress it needs to make elsewhere. So before J5 or so any ships traded will inure to USA benefit, even at a net IPC value loss.
In terms of deployment of naval power, Japan’s ideal scenario is forcing the US to mass ships turn after turn after turn without being able to use them effectively until it’s too late to matter. The USA ideal scenario is trading off material to increase the relative power of ANZAC through attrition of IJN units. USA takes a long time to threaten DEI but ANZAC is right there and lacks only the ability to survive Japanese counters. The faster Japanese units are traded away, the faster ANZAC can retake those islands by force.
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Are you advocating unloading all CV and attacking Yunnan with everything? Hmm.
Japan can get in 11ftr 8tb 2sb and maybe 2inf vs 14inf (including 2UK units) and 1tb. On average, Japan loses 2inf 3ftr in the first round for killing 13inf. It needs to trade planes to take the territory.
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Are you advocating unloading all CV and attacking Yunnan with everything? Hmm.
Japan can get in 11ftr 8tb 2sb and maybe 2inf vs 14inf (including 2UK units) and 1tb. On average, Japan loses 2inf 3ftr in the first round for killing 13inf. It needs to trade planes to take the territory.
Japan is in the position to trade a few planes to totally decimate the combine Chinese and British if they stack Yunnan for J2.
The longer you wait, the worse that stack becomes to dislodge. Not to mention, you now have to worry about your weaker flanks in China being exploited (FIC, Northern China)
As in betting in poker, once you raise after the flop you have to continue raising or you forfeit the lead (assumption you have the best hand). If you give up the lead, then everyone knows you don’t have the best hand and may start calling your bluff. Even if you don’t have the best hand, once you’ve committed, you better play like you do or you’re throwing money away.
Same theory applies for Japan. You take Yunnan every turn, forcing the predictability of both China and India in being forced to send forces to re-take it and defend it, or they must admit defeat - which means you’re gearing for Calcutta with all future purchases. Forcing your opposition into predictable moves is essential for Japanese success. The board is too big and there are too many flanks to allow someone else to dictate your moves.
The second you let China and India do anything else with their purchases, you’re giving up the “lead” and therefore conceding “defeat”. Defeat is defined as they’ve made you spend more time and resources to achieve an end you could have reached more rapidly and with less economic investment (starting units are sunk costs and are not economic investments).
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Are you advocating unloading all CV and attacking Yunnan with everything? Hmm.
Japan can get in 11ftr 8tb 2sb and maybe 2inf vs 14inf (including 2UK units) and 1tb. On average, Japan loses 2inf 3ftr in the first round for killing 13inf. It needs to trade planes to take the territory.
In my game there are two calculations for Japan that are vital: the result of a US attack on SZ6; and the result of a Japanese attack on a combined allied stack in Yunnan. Everything else is gravy. If a plane in Carolines means allies can hold the position, you don’t have the luxury of putting the plane in the Carolines.
I keep my Japanese carriers along the coast in the early game all I can to make sure their fighters can threaten Yunnan. You can move a BB DD sub and transport out to Carolines on J1 if you want to project force deeper into the Pacific.
I don’t see anything out there that’s worth the trouble early, but if you think there is then that’s the way to roll.
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In my game there are two calculations for Japan that are vital: the result of a US attack on SZ6; and the result of a Japanese attack on a combined allied stack in Yunnan. Everything else is gravy. If a plane in Carolines means allies can hold the position, you don’t have the luxury of putting the plane in the Carolines.
By that logic, the best J1 moves would be:
- No DOW
- Take FIC with the 2inf and lose the NO
- 2inf+art+planes attack Yunnan
- 4inf+art+planes attack Hunnan
- TTs from SZ6 and SZ19 each take inf+art to FIC or Kwangsi
By J2, you will be able to attack Yunnan (up to 13inf including 1 Soviet Mec) with up to 8inf+3art+planes
Indeed, it seems unnecessary to lose the NO. To prevent being excessively out of position for J2, you would put a naval base on Hainan.
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simon33 I don’t know where I came up with 3-4 units remaining. I must have missed something when calculating the battle. Probably got interrupted while I was posting… Than you for correcting.
Also to add to the conversation if your going to do a J1 I would risk the Caroline DD to take out the ANZAC TT + DD. Its a risk I think worth taking. If ANZAC loses that TT they lose 4-5 PU the next round of production and one of their blockers.
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Also to add to the conversation if your going to do a J1 I would risk the Caroline DD to take out the ANZAC TT + DD. Its a risk I think worth taking. If ANZAC loses that TT they lose 4-5 PU the next round of production and one of their blockers.
Good point. And if you aren’t attacking Hawaii you could throw in the planes, although that does expose the CV/planes to counter attack.
I’m reconsidering the need for the naval base on Hainan J1. If you’re going straight to the money islands it isn’t needed and costs the ability to place the IC on Shantung. Next game I’m going to try these moves but I think I’ll throw the tank at Kwangsi J1. I’ll also empty the CV at the Carolines and move loaded CVs to Wake Is and SZ36. SZ19 fleet + SZ20 Cruiser + CV can move to SZ36 to protect the TTs.
J2 the forces from Shantung + extras will reach Kweichow. Even if China can reclaim Yunnan China2 (likely), they’ll struggle to hold both it and Szechwan. J3 you would want to move in enough forces to hold it against China if you moved in there, although not necessarily UK.
You can also attack the Philippines J2 in part with forces starting in Kiangsu, and the obvious targets in the money islands. Probably too early to hit Malaya though. If Hawaii is not well defended you can hit that if you think its worth it. Otherwise the 2TTs which would be in SZ6 would be attacking Philippines or Kwangtung or ferrying troops to FIC/Kwangsi.
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You can drop a Tank and Inf in Kiangsi… The Tank gets to Yunnan on J2…, but more impt, the TR can go back and pick 2(originally Koreans (in Manchuria) on J2… and hit Malaya or Borneo… … If no NB on Kwangsi on J2, the TRS are too far away after J1 to pick units to deploy on those 2 places…
So… Japan and Okinawa TRS drop off in Formosa sea zone on J1, either return to (Japan on J2…or )Okinawa SZ on J2, p/ u 3I+Art… shuttle…back to Formosa SZ…for J3 hit on Malaya or Borneo…
J2 buys, go to Hainan SZ loaded to hit Java, Sumatra, Celebes… -
Correction…J1 buys…3 TRS loaded…
.go to Hainan SZ…on J2…for J3 strike… -
Did anyone give the answer?
The fighter and tac from Carolines Carrier SZ 35 can enter the land battle.
Send those, every J1, its a no lose.
They will be landing on a SZ 6 carrier that arrives empty in SZ 35.
Have that SZ 6 carriers’ fighter + tac set attack the sea during zone 35 battle.
Now the carriers will switch planes.
During noncom, the SZ 6 carrier lands the SZ33 carrier’s planes that had 1 move left leaving the island.
During noncom, the SZ 33 carrier moves to SZ43 with the destroyer if desired, and lands the SZ 6 planes.Now all your transports are covered you just need to make sure you killed the BB or he can attack Borneo with both ANZAC and UK and win.
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Hsemi off topic but can you declare war on uk and anzac without provoking the usa? And germany the soviets without the usa?
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@strategic:
Hsemi off topic but can you declare war on uk and anzac without provoking the usa? And germany the soviets without the usa?
Germany and Japan declaring war on the Soviet Union does not bring the US into the war. Japan can declare war on France with impunity, and they do not lose their 10 IPC NO as long as they do not invade French Indochina.
Any declaration of war by Japan on UK or ANZAC allows the US to enter the war. However, the reverse is not true – if UK or ANZAC declares war on Japan, Japan can go to town on them for free.
Marsh
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@Marshmallow:
@strategic:
Hsemi off topic but can you declare war on uk and anzac without provoking the usa? And germany the soviets without the usa?
Germany and Japan declaring war on the Soviet Union does not bring the US into the war. Japan can declare war on France with impunity, and they do not lose their 10 IPC NO as long as they do not invade French Indochina.
Thanks!
Any declaration of war by Japan on UK or ANZAC allows the US to enter the war. However, the reverse is not true – if UK or ANZAC declares war on Japan, Japan can go to town on them for free.
Marsh
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Going back to the original couple posts:
When doing a J1 attack I also sink the Hawaiian fleet. I hit the fleet with a couple dd, sub and 4 planes (2 ftrs/2tacs). I then NCM 2 carriers, cruiser and bb to Wake to pick up my surviving air units. Make sure a dd survives the Haw battle to block out the US ships from hitting your fleet at Wake (leave a few ftrs on Japan in case you need to NCM some air in to replace losses). US can try an ill advised air sweep on your Wake fleet, but if you want to play it safe take Wake Isl too. This will give your air units a place to land so your carriers and BB can soak up the first three hits.
You can also threaten to take Hawaii next turn (transports you bought J1), but you hit the US to keep them out of your business for a few turns, so J2 this fleet prob goes to Caroline’s to threaten Anz/money islands……
This will leave you the third carrier to bring air units into the Phil land battle on J1 after you take out the Phil mini fleet. I have found that taking out both the Hawaiian and Phil fleets J1 sets the USA back (6 ships sunk plus Phil ftr).
You can still kill the Brit BB, FIC, Hong Kong, and move into China on J1 as well. I generally buy 3 transports J1 to get to the money islands on J3. J2 I take Malaya (Anz NO), and drop an IC on FIC and a second IC probably on Kwangtung. This will allow you to build inf and a few tanks/mech as needed to keep China down, and press into India. India won’t be making much income for def, and the USA isn’t going to be coming to the rescue anytime soon.
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@WILD:
When doing a J1 attack I also sink the Hawaiian fleet. I hit the fleet with a couple dd, sub and 4 planes (2 ftrs/2tacs). I then NCM 2 carriers, cruiser and bb to Wake to pick up my surviving air units. Make sure a dd survives the Haw battle to block out the US ships from hitting your fleet at Wake (leave a few ftrs on Japan in case you need to NCM some air in to replace losses). US can try an ill advised air sweep on your Wake fleet, but if you want to play it safe take Wake Isl too. This will give your air units a place to land so your carriers and BB can soak up the first three hits.
I really like this (especially with balance mode because Wake denies USA an NO), and I would also add a bomber that lands on Marshall Islands. The problem is all those planes are not in Kwangsi so you lose the threat of pounding an airstrike on Szechwan or Burma, and you might even have a hard time at Yunnan. You do set the USA way back but you lose initiative on the mainland.
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