Alpha 3 due next week

@mantlefan:

Thanks for the analysis AllyAxis.

One thing to note is that Russia also has 2 AA guns in Novgorod, so they cna actually have 4 in Moscow.

Very good point!!!  I will retreat them in the future when playing the Soviet Union if practical.  Better they survive to fight in the main onslaught than russia spending additional IPCs on air defese in the capitol.  I go back and forth on holding Lenningrad.  It depends upon Germany if I decide to hold it or not.  but anything to make Moscow harder to get is a good strat always.  thanks for the tip!

Just finished our first game of Alpha+3.  Axis won in 7 rounds – Germany/Italy captured 8 of 11 on Europe board.  Was just about to take London too.  Japan also came close to getting 6 of 8 on the Pacific board but USA retook Honolulu in last round.
Germany decided against Sealion and concentrated on sacking Paris, sinking Royal Navy and preparing for Barbarossa.  Put Major IC in Romania round 1.  Round 2 put 3 transports in Black Sea and an airbase for Romania with 3 fighters ready to go.  Round 3 took Caucasus and launched Barbarossa all along European front.  Russia tried putting stacks of infantry along border (6-8) but it did no good as Germany was able to amass lots of men, artillery and tanks all along border.  Russia held tanks and artillery in reserve but did no counterattack so Germany just kept smashing along.  Poor choices by Russia this time I think.  By end of round 5, Germany had Moscow surrounded with nearly 3-1 advantage.  The Romanian Major IC and transports in the Black Sea really helped Germany get ahead fast, plus get the Middle-East NOs much earlier than usual.
Italy had a hard time in the Med with Britain and it went back and forth…  They must have exchanged Egypt 3 or 4 times before Italy finally got enough stuff there to be able to hold it.  UK couldn’t keep up with Italy’s builds plus keep chasing German submarines.
Japan overran China but left Russia alone at first.  Got a good size force in Burma ready to attack India but India attacked first and destroyed Japan’s invasion force.  US and Japanese fleets clash in Philippine Sea and annihilate each other.  However, US is making more money and can better replace their fleet, which they start doing.  Japan manages to take Hawaii and hold for 3 rounds.  US takes Hawaii back, but Japan takes Sydney.  Japan starting to build new navy to counter US.  Also with Minor ICs in Shanghai and Hong Kong, sending tanks toward Burma.  Japan’s air force down to about 1/3 of starting.
I don’t really see that much difference in Alpha 3.  The new AA gun rule is interesting and nearly cost Japan the Sydney battle with those 2 extra defense hit soaks.  Since Germany didn’t go after London, the “Russia attacking after London falls” rule didn’t apply.  I think the new Italian fleet layout helps the Italians a lot, and so does having a strat bomber.  Overall, I think the game still largely depends on the players skill, experience and choices.

@knp7765:

Just finished our first game of Alpha+3.  Axis won in 7 rounds – Germany/Italy captured 8 of 11 on Europe board.  Was just about to take London too.  Japan also came close to getting 6 of 8 on the Pacific board but USA retook Honolulu in last round.
Germany decided against Sealion and concentrated on sacking Paris, sinking Royal Navy and preparing for Barbarossa.  Put Major IC in Romania round 1.  Round 2 put 3 transports in Black Sea and an airbase for Romania with 3 fighters ready to go.  Round 3 took Caucasus and launched Barbarossa all along European front.  Russia tried putting stacks of infantry along border (6-8) but it did no good as Germany was able to amass lots of men, artillery and tanks all along border.  Russia held tanks and artillery in reserve but did no counterattack so Germany just kept smashing along.  Poor choices by Russia this time I think.  By end of round 5, Germany had Moscow surrounded with nearly 3-1 advantage.  The Romanian Major IC and transports in the Black Sea really helped Germany get ahead fast, plus get the Middle-East NOs much earlier than usual.
Italy had a hard time in the Med with Britain and it went back and forth…  They must have exchanged Egypt 3 or 4 times before Italy finally got enough stuff there to be able to hold it.  UK couldn’t keep up with Italy’s builds plus keep chasing German submarines.
Japan overran China but left Russia alone at first.  Got a good size force in Burma ready to attack India but India attacked first and destroyed Japan’s invasion force.  US and Japanese fleets clash in Philippine Sea and annihilate each other.  However, US is making more money and can better replace their fleet, which they start doing.  Japan manages to take Hawaii and hold for 3 rounds.  US takes Hawaii back, but Japan takes Sydney.  Japan starting to build new navy to counter US.  Also with Minor ICs in Shanghai and Hong Kong, sending tanks toward Burma.  Japan’s air force down to about 1/3 of starting.
I don’t really see that much difference in Alpha 3.  The new AA gun rule is interesting and nearly cost Japan the Sydney battle with those 2 extra defense hit soaks.  Since Germany didn’t go after London, the “Russia attacking after London falls” rule didn’t apply.  I think the new Italian fleet layout helps the Italians a lot, and so does having a strat bomber.  Overall, I think the game still largely depends on the players skill, experience and choices.

I totally agree with you.  I think the 6-8 infantry wall is a bad choice for the Soviets. Better to buffer and counter when you can and stack a large force until you can build tanks to counter with them.

Love the idea of transports in SZ100.  Have to use that sometime.  At first I wasn’t sure about the Major in Romania since its not any closer to russia,  but coming to the middle easy in force with Germany and taking the Caucus and forcing the action southward surely would make taking lenningrad and the soviets therefore loosing archangel easier.  But if the Allies see it they may consider moving planes in range to hit it.  Did you have to defend your transports with a CVN?  or did you build an airbase there too?  Another good option. Never thought about an Under Southern Route of transports tanks and men hitting the Ukraine , caucus, and Rostov before.

knp - switch sides and see how that goes.

I’d like to close this thread soon.  Alpha 3 is currently out and there are numerous threads rehashing the same comments.

@Cmdr:

I’d like to close this thread soon.  Alpha 3 is currently out and there are numerous threads rehashing the same comments.

let me know where to go next and I will totally go there.  Thanks for your advice Cmr Jennifer it has been helpful in my recent matches!!!

@AllyAxis:

[…] I built a Major in Kiangsu […]

Is this allowed? ???

@Andi:

@AllyAxis:

[…] I built a Major in Kiangsu […]

Is this allowed? ???

I was japan and it is also the VC space for shanghi  a 3 space.

@AllyAxis:

@Andi:

@AllyAxis:

[…] I built a Major in Kiangsu […]

Is this allowed? ???

I was japan and it is also the VC space for shanghi  a 3 space.

Ah I see, well then it looks like you were wrong.  Its not legal for any nation to build a major ic on foreign soil.  Even though Japan starts the game in 1940 with that territory, its a Chinese territory.  Don’t sweat it, we all made that mistake.  Chinese rules must not have been finalized before production started on the map, otherwise those territories would be green and you would be told in the setup to put a Japanese control marker there.

Yeah, whenever I setup for a game, one of the first things I do is put Japanese control markers on those six Chinese territories that they start the game with.  That way it just avoids confusion about whose territory it really is.  I don’t understand why they don’t instruct you to do that in the rule book.  Remember the Anniversary edition with the 1942 setup?

@knp7765:

Yeah, whenever I setup for a game, one of the first things I do is put Japanese control markers on those six Chinese territories that they start the game with.  That way it just avoids confusion about whose territory it really is.  I don’t understand why they don’t instruct you to do that in the rule book.  Remember the Anniversary edition with the 1942 setup?

Ah.  I don’t really disagree,  but at the same time I don’t think I did anything that any of my players would have disagreed with either.  Since we all thought it was perfectl legal.  In the end you can ask my players…  I fretted a great deal about actually spending 20 IPCs  and not really producing more than 3 units there except once in the game.  It would have been better for me to have proceeded with 2 minor IC’s on the board instead of a major.  Thanks for the heads up .  I just can’t seem to play this game perfectly with all the myriad rules  and this one is a total suprise to me!  I would say that since we all thought it was legal its a house rule game.  I never found that rule.

@AllyAxis:

@knp7765:

Yeah, whenever I setup for a game, one of the first things I do is put Japanese control markers on those six Chinese territories that they start the game with.  That way it just avoids confusion about whose territory it really is.  I don’t understand why they don’t instruct you to do that in the rule book.  Remember the Anniversary edition with the 1942 setup?

Ah.  I don’t really disagree,  but at the same time I don’t think I did anything that any of my players would have disagreed with either.  Since we all thought it was perfectl legal.  In the end you can ask my players…  I fretted a great deal about actually spending 20 IPCs  and not really producing more than 3 units there except once in the game.  It would have been better for me to have proceeded with 2 minor IC’s on the board instead of a major.  Thanks for the heads up .  I just can’t seem to play this game perfectly with all the myriad rules  and this one is a total suprise to me!   I would say that since we all thought it was legal its a house rule game.   I never found that rule.

Actually your wrong.  Alpha 3  states orignally controlled territories.

Industrial Complexes:
Major industrial complexes can only be built on originally controlled territories (this includes upgrading minor ones). Likewise they may not be upgraded when captured. Major industrial complexes are reduced to minor when captured. The original owner of the territory may upgrade it if the territory is recaptured.

I originally owned Shanhi/Kiangsu  so as he Japanese I can build there.  Maybe thats an Alpha 3 rule change that slipped through.  It doesn’t say foreign countries.

@AllyAxis:

Actually your wrong.  Alpha 3  states orignally controlled territories.

Industrial Complexes:
Major industrial complexes can only be built on originally controlled territories (this includes upgrading minor ones). Likewise they may not be upgraded when captured. Major industrial complexes are reduced to minor when captured. The original owner of the territory may upgrade it if the territory is recaptured.

I originally owned Shanhi/Kiangsu  so as he Japanese I can build there.  Maybe thats an Alpha 3 rule change that slipped through.  It doesn’t say foreign countries.

Yes, Japan does start the game in control of Kiangsu, but it has a Chinese symbol printed on the map.  That means that the original owner of that territory is China.  The only territory outside of Japan that Japan can build a Major IC on is Korea because it is worth 3 IPCs and has a Japanese symbol actually printed on the map itself.  I know this is kind of an oddball rule with Japan starting the game in control of Kiangsu, but you are supposed to pay attention to the symbol that is printed on the actual map to determine original ownership.

@knp7765:

@AllyAxis:

Actually your wrong.  Alpha 3  states orignally controlled territories.

Industrial Complexes:
Major industrial complexes can only be built on originally controlled territories (this includes upgrading minor ones). Likewise they may not be upgraded when captured. Major industrial complexes are reduced to minor when captured. The original owner of the territory may upgrade it if the territory is recaptured.

I originally owned Shanhi/Kiangsu   so as he Japanese I can build there.  Maybe thats an Alpha 3 rule change that slipped through.  It doesn’t say foreign countries.

Yes, Japan does start the game in control of Kiangsu, but it has a Chinese symbol printed on the map.  That means that the original owner of that territory is China.  The only territory outside of Japan that Japan can build a Major IC on is Korea because it is worth 3 IPCs and has a Japanese symbol actually printed on the map itself.  I know this is kind of an oddball rule with Japan starting the game in control of Kiangsu, but you are supposed to pay attention to the symbol that is printed on the actual map to determine original ownership.

I disagree with that interpretation on the grounds that I understood the markers to mean that china could move into those territories which are chinese ,  but not orignally controlled by china at the beginning of the game.  Original control to me is what territories you start with.  NOT your interpretation of the rule.  It sounds stupid to interpret it that way when original control clearly means what you start with is what you originally control.

@AllyAxis:

I disagree with that interpretation on the grounds that I understood the markers to mean that china could move into those territories which are chinese ,  but not orignally controlled by china at the beginning of the game.  Original control to me is what territories you start with.  NOT your interpretation of the rule.  It sounds stupid to interpret it that way when original control clearly means what you start with is what you originally control.

Just trying to help clarify something you seemed unsure about.  No need to be insulting.  Play the game however you like.

@AllyAxis:

I disagree with that interpretation on the grounds that I understood the markers to mean that china could move into those territories which are chinese ,  but not orignally controlled by china at the beginning of the game.  Original control to me is what territories you start with.  NOT your interpretation of the rule.  It sounds stupid to interpret it that way when original control clearly means what you start with is what you originally control.

If you read page 9 of the Pacific Rulebuke: Chinese territories on the game board have a Nationalist Chinese nationality symbol on them. Some of these territories begin the game already under Japanese control. They still are considered Chinese territories for purposes of original ownership.

Alpha-Rules say: Major industrial complexes can only be built on originally controlled territories (this includes upgrading minor ones). Likewise they may not be upgraded when captured. Major industrial complexes are reduced to minor when captured. The original owner of the territory may upgrade it if the territory is recaptured.

It’s a bit confusing… I’ll post it in the FAQ…

You can only build a major IC on a territory that has your power’s emblem printed on it.

@AllyAxis:

@knp7765:

@AllyAxis:

Actually your wrong.  Alpha 3  states orignally controlled territories.

Industrial Complexes:
Major industrial complexes can only be built on originally controlled territories (this includes upgrading minor ones). Likewise they may not be upgraded when captured. Major industrial complexes are reduced to minor when captured. The original owner of the territory may upgrade it if the territory is recaptured.

I originally owned Shanhi/Kiangsu   so as he Japanese I can build there.  Maybe thats an Alpha 3 rule change that slipped through.  It doesn’t say foreign countries.

Yes, Japan does start the game in control of Kiangsu, but it has a Chinese symbol printed on the map.  That means that the original owner of that territory is China.  The only territory outside of Japan that Japan can build a Major IC on is Korea because it is worth 3 IPCs and has a Japanese symbol actually printed on the map itself.  I know this is kind of an oddball rule with Japan starting the game in control of Kiangsu, but you are supposed to pay attention to the symbol that is printed on the actual map to determine original ownership.

I disagree with that interpretation on the grounds that I understood the markers to mean that china could move into those territories which are chinese ,  but not orignally controlled by china at the beginning of the game.  Original control to me is what territories you start with.  NOT your interpretation of the rule.  It sounds stupid to interpret it that way when original control clearly means what you start with is what you originally control.

:roll:

I think you’re going to have to post any of our rules interpretations in the FAQ thread then, if you’re not willing to listen to others.  See how many posts KNP and I have.  I only try and post when I can assist a rules question, I have never posted something knowingly incorrect, and I don’t think I"ve seen anyone else do it who doesn’t have less than 100 posts….oh, you have less than 100 posts?  read the FAQ then.

Thank you JimmyHat.  I wouldn’t post something I knew to be incorrect either.  If I were unsure, I would at least say so or not post at all.

@AllyAxis:

@Cmdr:

I’d like to close this thread soon.  Alpha 3 is currently out and there are numerous threads rehashing the same comments.

let me know where to go next and I will totally go there.  Thanks for your advice Cmr Jennifer it has been helpful in my recent matches!!!

No problem on the advice.  The other threads are in the same forum, one is entitled “Is Sea Lion still possible” there are others.