Alpha 3 due next week

[JimmyHat]

@AllyAxis:

@Andi:

@AllyAxis:

[…] I built a Major in Kiangsu […]

Is this allowed? ???

I was japan and it is also the VC space for shanghi  a 3 space.

Ah I see, well then it looks like you were wrong.  Its not legal for any nation to build a major ic on foreign soil.  Even though Japan starts the game in 1940 with that territory, its a Chinese territory.  Don’t sweat it, we all made that mistake.  Chinese rules must not have been finalized before production started on the map, otherwise those territories would be green and you would be told in the setup to put a Japanese control marker there.

[knp7765]

Yeah, whenever I setup for a game, one of the first things I do is put Japanese control markers on those six Chinese territories that they start the game with.  That way it just avoids confusion about whose territory it really is.  I don’t understand why they don’t instruct you to do that in the rule book.  Remember the Anniversary edition with the 1942 setup?

[AllyAxis]

@knp7765:

Yeah, whenever I setup for a game, one of the first things I do is put Japanese control markers on those six Chinese territories that they start the game with.  That way it just avoids confusion about whose territory it really is.  I don’t understand why they don’t instruct you to do that in the rule book.  Remember the Anniversary edition with the 1942 setup?

Ah.  I don’t really disagree,  but at the same time I don’t think I did anything that any of my players would have disagreed with either.  Since we all thought it was perfectl legal.  In the end you can ask my players…  I fretted a great deal about actually spending 20 IPCs  and not really producing more than 3 units there except once in the game.  It would have been better for me to have proceeded with 2 minor IC’s on the board instead of a major.  Thanks for the heads up .  I just can’t seem to play this game perfectly with all the myriad rules  and this one is a total suprise to me!  I would say that since we all thought it was legal its a house rule game.  I never found that rule.

[AllyAxis]

@AllyAxis:

@knp7765:

Yeah, whenever I setup for a game, one of the first things I do is put Japanese control markers on those six Chinese territories that they start the game with.  That way it just avoids confusion about whose territory it really is.  I don’t understand why they don’t instruct you to do that in the rule book.  Remember the Anniversary edition with the 1942 setup?

Ah.  I don’t really disagree,  but at the same time I don’t think I did anything that any of my players would have disagreed with either.  Since we all thought it was perfectl legal.  In the end you can ask my players…  I fretted a great deal about actually spending 20 IPCs  and not really producing more than 3 units there except once in the game.  It would have been better for me to have proceeded with 2 minor IC’s on the board instead of a major.  Thanks for the heads up .  I just can’t seem to play this game perfectly with all the myriad rules  and this one is a total suprise to me!   I would say that since we all thought it was legal its a house rule game.   I never found that rule.

Actually your wrong.  Alpha 3  states orignally controlled territories.

Industrial Complexes:
Major industrial complexes can only be built on originally controlled territories (this includes upgrading minor ones). Likewise they may not be upgraded when captured. Major industrial complexes are reduced to minor when captured. The original owner of the territory may upgrade it if the territory is recaptured.

I originally owned Shanhi/Kiangsu  so as he Japanese I can build there.  Maybe thats an Alpha 3 rule change that slipped through.  It doesn’t say foreign countries.

[knp7765]

@AllyAxis:

Actually your wrong.  Alpha 3  states orignally controlled territories.

Industrial Complexes:
Major industrial complexes can only be built on originally controlled territories (this includes upgrading minor ones). Likewise they may not be upgraded when captured. Major industrial complexes are reduced to minor when captured. The original owner of the territory may upgrade it if the territory is recaptured.

I originally owned Shanhi/Kiangsu  so as he Japanese I can build there.  Maybe thats an Alpha 3 rule change that slipped through.  It doesn’t say foreign countries.

Yes, Japan does start the game in control of Kiangsu, but it has a Chinese symbol printed on the map.  That means that the original owner of that territory is China.  The only territory outside of Japan that Japan can build a Major IC on is Korea because it is worth 3 IPCs and has a Japanese symbol actually printed on the map itself.  I know this is kind of an oddball rule with Japan starting the game in control of Kiangsu, but you are supposed to pay attention to the symbol that is printed on the actual map to determine original ownership.

[AllyAxis]

@knp7765:

@AllyAxis:

Actually your wrong.  Alpha 3  states orignally controlled territories.

Industrial Complexes:
Major industrial complexes can only be built on originally controlled territories (this includes upgrading minor ones). Likewise they may not be upgraded when captured. Major industrial complexes are reduced to minor when captured. The original owner of the territory may upgrade it if the territory is recaptured.

I originally owned Shanhi/Kiangsu   so as he Japanese I can build there.  Maybe thats an Alpha 3 rule change that slipped through.  It doesn’t say foreign countries.

Yes, Japan does start the game in control of Kiangsu, but it has a Chinese symbol printed on the map.  That means that the original owner of that territory is China.  The only territory outside of Japan that Japan can build a Major IC on is Korea because it is worth 3 IPCs and has a Japanese symbol actually printed on the map itself.  I know this is kind of an oddball rule with Japan starting the game in control of Kiangsu, but you are supposed to pay attention to the symbol that is printed on the actual map to determine original ownership.

I disagree with that interpretation on the grounds that I understood the markers to mean that china could move into those territories which are chinese ,  but not orignally controlled by china at the beginning of the game.  Original control to me is what territories you start with.  NOT your interpretation of the rule.  It sounds stupid to interpret it that way when original control clearly means what you start with is what you originally control.

[knp7765]

@AllyAxis:

I disagree with that interpretation on the grounds that I understood the markers to mean that china could move into those territories which are chinese ,  but not orignally controlled by china at the beginning of the game.  Original control to me is what territories you start with.  NOT your interpretation of the rule.  It sounds stupid to interpret it that way when original control clearly means what you start with is what you originally control.

Just trying to help clarify something you seemed unsure about.  No need to be insulting.  Play the game however you like.

[Andi]

@AllyAxis:

I disagree with that interpretation on the grounds that I understood the markers to mean that china could move into those territories which are chinese ,  but not orignally controlled by china at the beginning of the game.  Original control to me is what territories you start with.  NOT your interpretation of the rule.  It sounds stupid to interpret it that way when original control clearly means what you start with is what you originally control.

If you read page 9 of the Pacific Rulebuke: Chinese territories on the game board have a Nationalist Chinese nationality symbol on them. Some of these territories begin the game already under Japanese control. They still are considered Chinese territories for purposes of original ownership.

Alpha-Rules say: Major industrial complexes can only be built on originally controlled territories (this includes upgrading minor ones). Likewise they may not be upgraded when captured. Major industrial complexes are reduced to minor when captured. The original owner of the territory may upgrade it if the territory is recaptured.

It’s a bit confusing… I’ll post it in the FAQ…

[Krieghund]

You can only build a major IC on a territory that has your power’s emblem printed on it.

[JimmyHat]

@AllyAxis:

@knp7765:

@AllyAxis:

Actually your wrong.  Alpha 3  states orignally controlled territories.

Industrial Complexes:
Major industrial complexes can only be built on originally controlled territories (this includes upgrading minor ones). Likewise they may not be upgraded when captured. Major industrial complexes are reduced to minor when captured. The original owner of the territory may upgrade it if the territory is recaptured.

I originally owned Shanhi/Kiangsu   so as he Japanese I can build there.  Maybe thats an Alpha 3 rule change that slipped through.  It doesn’t say foreign countries.

Yes, Japan does start the game in control of Kiangsu, but it has a Chinese symbol printed on the map.  That means that the original owner of that territory is China.  The only territory outside of Japan that Japan can build a Major IC on is Korea because it is worth 3 IPCs and has a Japanese symbol actually printed on the map itself.  I know this is kind of an oddball rule with Japan starting the game in control of Kiangsu, but you are supposed to pay attention to the symbol that is printed on the actual map to determine original ownership.

I disagree with that interpretation on the grounds that I understood the markers to mean that china could move into those territories which are chinese ,  but not orignally controlled by china at the beginning of the game.  Original control to me is what territories you start with.  NOT your interpretation of the rule.  It sounds stupid to interpret it that way when original control clearly means what you start with is what you originally control.

:roll:

I think you’re going to have to post any of our rules interpretations in the FAQ thread then, if you’re not willing to listen to others.  See how many posts KNP and I have.  I only try and post when I can assist a rules question, I have never posted something knowingly incorrect, and I don’t think I"ve seen anyone else do it who doesn’t have less than 100 posts….oh, you have less than 100 posts?  read the FAQ then.

[knp7765]

Thank you JimmyHat.  I wouldn’t post something I knew to be incorrect either.  If I were unsure, I would at least say so or not post at all.

[Jennifer]

@AllyAxis:

@Cmdr:

I’d like to close this thread soon.  Alpha 3 is currently out and there are numerous threads rehashing the same comments.

let me know where to go next and I will totally go there.  Thanks for your advice Cmr Jennifer it has been helpful in my recent matches!!!

No problem on the advice.  The other threads are in the same forum, one is entitled “Is Sea Lion still possible” there are others.