Finally, what should i do whit italy

Re: Global 1940 & 1943 Expansions Game Reports

Global 1940 July 4th 2024 Game (start) report #4
(4th day of play on 11/3)

Global 1940 with Expansion Rules & the following optional rules:
Rockets
Heavy Bombers
Seafire fighter planes
Jet Fighters
Japanese Destroyers
King Tiger & SS Heavy Tanks

Agreed a win can happen through Economic Victory or Axis capturing victory cities per the original Global 1940 rules.

Germany - Josh S
Japan - Alex M
UK - Pat H
Russia - mkgionet
USA - Mike K
Report from Japan’s turn in Late 1947 (round 16) USA turn of Late 1949 (round 20)
Longest game I’ve ever played!

First I need to admit that I’m a bonehead! We were all so excited that the game finally ended that we immediately started cleaning up and I neglected to take any pictures - Ugh!

1947
If folks remember, the Allies looked to be in a dire situation at the end of the last report with Germany having pushed most enemy troops out of its territory and poised to make a powerful advance into Russia, while Japan firmly had 5 Victory Cities in hand and was in a position to retake the 6th city. Us Allied players held our breath while Japan took their turn, hoping that the massive US fleet surrounding Japan would focus Japan’s attention more than retaking and holding the 6th Victory City (Shanghai). Tick, tick, tick, tick, pieces move, tick, tick, tick, more pieces move…

YES! Indeed, the fleet around Japan caused him to ignore thinking much about Shanghai and, as we hoped, he committed the majority of his military power to eliminating this fleet. Between games I took a long hard look at the board and realized that if Japan used his 7 strategic bombers on the mainland, with his mainland ground troops, he could not only retake Shanghai, but likely eliminate all of the Chinese infantry to retake Anhwe and place ground troops in Shantung so that USA’s tank army would be blocked from getting to/liberating Shanghai. Thus causing the Axis to hold 6 Victory Cities and win. Thankfully Japan didn’t see this. He did retake Shanghai, but left Anhwe untouched.

The Allies make preparations to retake Hawaii and the Philippines. Japans troops are now primarily concentrated in southeast Asia, India, and Japan.

The US continues to get hammered by German Wolf Packs on the east coast, losing 20+ IPC. However, the Tank Army on the Asia mainland rolls in to retake Shanghai, while China has an income around 20 and continues placing significant amounts of infantry on the board.

UK strengthens Persia & Finland & holds West India.

1948

Taking Barnee’s advice (thank you) the US finally purchases an air base and fighters for Central America. Works like a charm with the wolf packs scattering and being chased down and mostly destroyed by fighters.

Anzac momentarily captures the Philippines before Japan quickly recaptures it. Japan retakes Korea and invades nearby Russian territories. Clearly, the new Axis plan is to focus on attacking Russia on both sides.

Hawaii is easily recaptured and the USA prepares to move troops north to Alaska so they can retaliate against the Japanese invasion of Russia.

UK continues to strengthen Persia and lands paratroopers in various German territories.

Germany makes a massive attack to retake Finland and Leningrad, but then pulls back in order to attack Russia’s Army Group with 2 tank armies and a plethora of ground troops. Russia is able to retake Leningrad and continue reforming armies that are pushed along to the front lines. Russia isn’t able to recapture Finland, but is able to kill off the few remaining troops that had succeeded in taking it back for Germany.

1949 - A Pivotal year!

Germany purchases several transports and a super heavy battleship. It looks like they may be preparing to invade London. They do leave a few territories vulnerable on the front lines with Russia though, allowing a Russian Tank Army to get behind the front lines and on Berlin’s doorstep. Not a real threat to Germany, but it’s a target they’ll need to attack.

USA navy in place in Alaska, ready to come liberate Russian territories from the Japanese invasion.

Japan builds a major industrial complex in Korea and focuses on producing troops there. They pull some troops out of India in order to combat the growing number of Chinese forces, which ends up being a crucial mistake. In a very even battle the UK takes a gamble and goes all in on attacking India. With solid rolling it results in a UK victory! Even better, Anzac takes Burma and Japan has no way to retake India anytime soon. Other territories on the mainland south and west of Shanghai are also taken from the Japanese.

The USA is about to launch their Alaskan fleet over to the Soviet Far East when the Allies see a golden opportunity. Off the coast of Japan are a few transports, (3) Aircraft Carriers, and (6) Carrier Fighters. Even better, all ground troops (even the AA gun) have been moved out of Japan over to Korea and the mainland. The only thing left in Japan are (4) Strategic Bombers. The USA seizes this opportunity and attacks Japan for the 2cd time and scores a victory! At this point the Axis surrender. The Allies have snatched victory from the jaws of defeat!

A very long, but very enjoyable game with lots of twists and turns. The Victory Cities really add an interesting element to the game. I think we’ll be taking a long break before our next game!

Pro-Allied, Pro-FIL, and Strict Neutral powers have been added in to the posted setup.

NEUTRAL ITALY Variant:

Italy was clearly in the middle of everything at this time in world history.  Their strategic location in the Mediterranean Sea gave them a particular and peculiar place on who or how they would join in the coming war.  Italy chose neither side at the start - but events and pressures would soon change that course.

Use this rule to handle a weak and indecisive Italy  - which side will they JOIN?!

New power sequence:   (preferred but not necessary)
AH - Cannot attack Italy and must attack SER turn 1.
IT - Neutral turn 1.  Cannot move or build.
RU
GE
FR
OE
UK
US - Neutral until turn 4.

Procedure for Italy entering the war:
Italy was in the Triple Alliance (of 1882) at the start of the war; Austria, Germany, & Italy.  The Triple Entente; England, France, & Russia did much to “buy” Italy’s allegiance with promises of any territorial gains they may take in Austria, the middle East, and Africa.  If not for the death of the pro-CP Italian Foreign Minister, the Marquis di San Giuliano, the auction for Italy may not have occurred, and Italy may stayed out of the war longer, if not for the duration.  The Triple Entente had much to offer Italy, the Triple Alliance, very little.

Turn 1 - Italy cannot be attacked.
Turn 2+;  
a) At start of turn, roll 1d6.  1-2 = to CP; 3-4 = stays neutral;  5-7 = to AP; 8+ = stays neutral.
b) The Triple Entente can spend IPCs (from any treasury) to adjust that die roll.  For every 6 spent, add 1 to the roll.   This money does not go the Italian treasury.
c) While neutral, Italy will collect 50% of IPC values into their treasury.
d)  If the Italy joins a side due to this roll, the owning player can immediately spend 50% of treasury on units to be placed in any European Italian territory or sea zone adjacent to Rome.
e) While neutral, Italy can be attacked by any power, in which they would automatically join the other side.  1; If this occurs, they will mobilize 2 x IPC value of territor(ies) under attack, and regardless of the number of units mobilized, 50% of the treasury will be expended.  2; Mines are active against any amphibious or sea attacks.  
f) On Italy’s first active turn in the game, they can spend 50% of their treasury minus any amount that was pre-spent in step d.

Here are some of the rules I liked that are different:

Naval spotting - makes sense, maybe add +1 to spotting roll if sub or plane present.

Research - I’m assuming those are free rolls.

AAA - firing before each round.  At 5 planes seems a bit steep.

Cruiser (AA) - That’s a house rule I already use.  Makes them a little more useful.

Railroads - I’ve seen and used them, but with a limit to units moved.  But since your limiting it to 2 spaces.

Research Focus - A research tech for your research roll.  Brilliant!

Heavy transports - Another one in use.

Sonar - Interesting concept.

Not sure on the “Dodge” concept.  Thanks for the listing of your rules.

@Flashman:

How motivated to fight for either side were Italians after 1943? I’d guess they all just wanted the war to end. They’d seen the back of Mussolini, but did they want to die for the King?

My preference is for a general rule that all liberated former factory sites can be used to build infantry only (captured factories removed remember). This works fine for France. Some places could be used by either side (Romania, Finland?)

What happens if northern Italy has a mix of German and Italian units; do the Germans “disarm” the Italians?

If Italy becomes Allied does it get bonus infantry to represent returning POWs (I use something similar in 1914 after Russian revolution).

What about Italians on leave in Tokyo?

I always work house rules around historical marks for game play so in order to answer your questions, it works like this:

1: Both sides had military forces loyal to their commanders, Axis Italy did not surrendered until 1945 when it fell right before USSR entered Berlin, while the bulk of it was German defenders, they used Italian forces more of a military auxiliary but they did fight. Allied Italian forces as far as I know, never fought independent from the other allies, I don’t think US and UK trusted them so as far as I know, they were incorporated into US and UK units but they did fight.

2: You bring up a good point about Italian conquered neutral countries so for the sake of my status quo, I say it would join the allies.

3: I never worked any kind of POW rules into the game because I am not sure how to work it but I usually have allied Italy start as a baby fresh power.

4: The only known case of this was Japan did ask any Italian citizen who their loyalty lies and those who said the king, went to jail. While it is very unlike Italy would have any forces in Japanese territory, for the sake of balance, I would treat it no different than if it was in German territory so I’d say it remains Axis.

Here is an Italian rule (offset to Axis Vichy rule).

Italian Co-Belligerent Army / Italian Social Republic

ICBA is a pro-Allied Italian government created after Rome is captured.  At the same time, ISR, a remnant and a pro-Axis goverment of Mussolini’s regime is created and seated out of Northern Italy.  ICBA eligible territories are all Italian controlled territories, EXCEPT Northern Italy and Italian controlled territories with German units.  These territories are treated same as pro-Allied neutrals.  All other forces are part of the Italian Social Republic.  ISR becomes the new Italy and starts with 0 IPCs.  On the each ISR turn, they CAN get up to 5 IPCs from Germany.  For the ICBA, any movement is done after Vichy.
**Procedure:  **
After Rome is captured, the following happens:
1. All ICBA forces (land/sea/air) standfast and defend against Axis attacks.  
2. ICBA land forces can move during the non-combat phase.
3. If an ICBA territory with units is occupied by Allied player, no new units are created, but any ICBA infantry units are converted to the occupying Allied power, and all others disband.    
4. ISR units may move as normal.  ISR can be ordered to attack ICBA units.
5. All ICBA units return to Axis if Rome is liberated.  ICBA cannot be re-created.
(Optional: Any ICBA controlled Allied territories return to original owner, non-infantry units disband.)

Do you play it that Italy does nothing while neutral, i.e. Italy cannot buy new units or move what they already have?

In my view this is essential for a workable neutral Italy; as far as the powers of the day were concerned mobilization was the equivalent of a declaration of war, so as soon as a power starts moving and building it should be considered at war for all purposes.

Also, it’s rather unfair that Italy can build, yet Austria cannot attack it. Therefore, if Italy can build/move R1/2 then Austria has no reason not to attack Venice R1 to prevent an Italian buildup, which of course renders the rule obsolete.

If you’re going to make Italy neutral for two turns, then Turkey should be neutral at least until the beginning of its first turn.

Italian starting navy

1 Battleship
1 Cruiser
1 Destroyer
1 Submarine
1 Transport

recommend: 1 dd or 1 CA, plus transport

German navy
1 Battleship
1 Cruiser
2 Destroyer
3 Submarine
1 Transport

recommend: you buy lots of subs

British starting navy ( in europe area)
2 Battleship
2 Cruiser
3 Destroyer
1 Submarine
2 Transport

Note: They will buy whatever they have lost plus carrier and transports, but if you look weak they will build cruisers and destroyers and take you out.

on the basis of this and the fact that the German player must make as many attacks on UK naval with sea and air elements, i really don’t see how this is happening unless:

You have the tools to make the british player hurt for like 3 turns, during that time you need to use your naval to attack and you need to buy subs and other naval to keep the thing going for a while, while you get the land build up for the Soviets.