Then a new player has no chance against an experienced player. With a bid, the new player will have more units to balance out against the experience of his opponent.
As for placing the units where you wnat, many games do that. Rise and Decline of the Third Reich, a classic by any standard, works that way.
Yes, but there are not many of us who play R&D 3rd Reich.
Anyway, a new player never stands a chance against an experienced player. Bids don’t change that. Bids only change the balance of power, and if we’re going to have a bid at all, why not just place what you want where you want without having to worry about 1 guy here, or 1 tank there?
If it’s good for 3 IPC, it’s good for 300 IPC. After all, we have established it’s good, now we’re only arguing over degree.
Sort of like the old joke:
“Will you have sex with me for $5 million dollars?”
“Yes.”
“Will you have sex with me for $5 dollars?”
“NO! What do you take me for!”
“We already established what you are, we are now discussing price!”
Never happy with what you have always wants more……it’s not how much you have but what you can do with what you have maybe that’s just human nature.
Try to sack the USA with Ger Jap & It
But if your going to try to get them to hand out more stuff for Jap I don’t think there are too many people who would turn them down
WE almost set up the OOB last weekend for a change of pace but we didn’t. The Jap OOb set up could be a game changer then again those dam dice can do it to ya to
Keep on keeping on and maybe there’ll be a new set up to the game (official)
Part of the problem isn’t just what the US can buy, but that coupled with what they have before the game starts. Remove the BB from SZ10 and the Sub from SZ26. Move the DD from SZ35 to the Eastern US. Also move the CA from SZ10 to SZ26. Also the US shouldn’t start with as many transports as the Japanese. They were commandeering cruise ships in the beginning of the war.
I wouldn’t mind trying the OOB setup with the Alpha 2 rule set. It might work. The adjustments on the board would be countered by the increased units Japan starts with.
@Cmdr:
I wouldn’t mind trying the OOB setup with the Alpha 2 rule set. It might work. The adjustments on the board would be countered by the increased units Japan starts with.
you do realize that the allies start out with alot more aswell (mainly in the pacific and US)
@Cmdr:
I wouldn’t mind trying the OOB setup with the Alpha 2 rule set. It might work. The adjustments on the board would be countered by the increased units Japan starts with.
you do realize that the allies start out with alot more aswell (mainly in the pacific and US)
'Cept for China.
@Zallomallo:
@Cmdr:
I wouldn’t mind trying the OOB setup with the Alpha 2 rule set. It might work. The adjustments on the board would be countered by the increased units Japan starts with.
you do realize that the allies start out with alot more aswell (mainly in the pacific and US)
'Cept for China.
Japan starts with less in china aswell
@Zallomallo:
@Cmdr:
I wouldn’t mind trying the OOB setup with the Alpha 2 rule set. It might work. The adjustments on the board would be countered by the increased units Japan starts with.
you do realize that the allies start out with alot more aswell (mainly in the pacific and US)
'Cept for China.
Japan starts with less in china aswell
And Japan has like twice as many aircraft.
@Cmdr:
@Zallomallo:
@Cmdr:
I wouldn’t mind trying the OOB setup with the Alpha 2 rule set. It might work. The adjustments on the board would be countered by the increased units Japan starts with.
you do realize that the allies start out with alot more aswell (mainly in the pacific and US)
'Cept for China.
Japan starts with less in china aswell
And Japan has like twice as many aircraft.
Only like 4 more
@Cmdr:
@Zallomallo:
@Cmdr:
I wouldn’t mind trying the OOB setup with the Alpha 2 rule set. It might work. The adjustments on the board would be countered by the increased units Japan starts with.
you do realize that the allies start out with alot more aswell (mainly in the pacific and US)
'Cept for China.
Japan starts with less in china aswell
And Japan has like twice as many aircraft.
So do the allies
Japan: 28 Aircraft OOB
Japan: 21 Aircraft Alpha 2
Difference: -7 Aircraft (-25 Attacking Punch)
USA: 12 Aircraft OOB
USA: 8 Aircraft Alpha 2
Difference: -4 Aircraft (-17 Attacking Punch)
It’s a relatively HUGE swing in the balance of power in the Pacific. Just going with the OOB set up and the Alpha 2 rules may, actually, make Japan too strong, or it may balance things out. What it won’t do is make the allies stronger.
Also, it does not give the Allies any more aircraft, it removes Allied aircraft. It does give Japan significantly more aircraft, particularly in long range bombers which is probably a very needed boost in power.
Note: I counted ALL America planes regardless of which board they were on, since it is relatively easy to move them to either board you want early.
@Cmdr:
Japan: 28 Aircraft OOB
- 4 Strategic Bombers
- 10 Tactical Bombers
- 14 Fighters
Japan: 21 Aircraft Alpha 2
- 2 Strategic Bombers
- 8 Tactical Bomber
- 11 Fighters
Difference: -7 Aircraft (-25 Attacking Punch)
- -2 Strategic Bombers
- -2 Tactical Bombers
- -3 Fighters
USA: 12 Aircraft OOB
- 4 Strategic Bombers
- 3 Tactical Bombers
- 5 Fighters
USA: 8 Aircraft Alpha 2
- 1 Strategic Bomber
- 1 Tactical Bomber
- 6 Fighters
Difference: -4 Aircraft (-17 Attacking Punch)
- -3 Strategic Bombers
- -2 Tactical BOmbers
- +1 Fighter
It’s a relatively HUGE swing in the balance of power in the Pacific. Just going with the OOB set up and the Alpha 2 rules may, actually, make Japan too strong, or it may balance things out. What it won’t do is make the allies stronger.
Also, it does not give the Allies any more aircraft, it removes Allied aircraft. It does give Japan significantly more aircraft, particularly in long range bombers which is probably a very needed boost in power.
Note: I counted ALL America planes regardless of which board they were on, since it is relatively easy to move them to either board you want early.
You do realize that uk starts with 2 more figs in india and anzac starts with an extra in new zeal in OOB
OOB japan has 14 fig 10 tac 4 strats
Alpha 2 japan has 11 fig 8 tac 2 strats
OOB pacific allies have 14 figs 4 tacs 4 strats
Alpha 2 pacific allies have 12 figs 2 tacs and 1 strat
OOB japan has 6 tac advantage
Alpha 2 japan has 6 tac 1 strat advantage 1 fig disadvantage
starting conditions air wise wont make a shred of difference
You do realize that uk starts with 2 more figs in india and anzac starts with an extra in new zeal in OOB
Yes, but since they cannot be added to an American attack, they are mostly irrelevant. Three of them can be added to America’s defense, but since Australia already has 3 planes for this role in Alpha 2, there is no huge difference. 4 Australian planes ~ 3 Australian planes since only 3 can scramble anyway.
Supposedly this may be a concern if America puts out more aircraft carriers for all the Australian and British planes, but since this does not really make America “stronger” (defined as able to sink the Japanese sooner) it’s also not overly relevant.
However, 7 new aircraft for Japan can all be used simultaniously to attack with. This could mean the demise of India or Australia sooner, or just significantly more punch, sooner, against the American fleet.
I thought u said that uk/anzacs were relavant in the pacific? I thought u said they will pick off the extremities of japan and help divide his forces so that the US will have an easier time with the navy. They way u have been posting earlier made it seem that UK and ANZ can be big threats unless japan over commits to lock them down
The way it is CURRENTLY set up, yes. Because British ships can add to America’s defense and Australian fighters can add to American defense. However, in OOB setup, much of the “added” units for England/Australia cannot add to America’s defense, thus, are not really all that more relevant.
A little, but not as much as an added fighter to America or an added Strategic Bomber to Japan.
There will be two boards this weekend, one the OOB set up the other the Alpha+2 set up the rules will be the Alpha+2
Four players for sure maybe Six the last Two will know more as the weekend approaches
@Cmdr:
I wouldn’t mind trying the OOB setup with the Alpha 2 rule set. It might work. The adjustments on the board would be countered by the increased units Japan starts with.
Interesting. Consumers would not lose immediate value on their purchase with an OOB setup. I rather like the handiness of nation setups on each nation’s box cover.
When you suggest using the rules for Alpha 2 do you mean both the combat rules and the National Objectives?
If it performs well in playtest it would certainly resolve the dickering over which units should be added where.
My, unscientific, untested hypothesis is that the rule set for Alpha 2 with only the one modification of using the original setup charts provided with the rules in the box, may balance things out. That is, one would use the original setup for the global 1940 game, but use the rule adjustments given in Alpha 2. (National Objectives, Non-Aggression Treaty, etc.)
Why?
1. There is no naval base in Queensland, thus, certain territories (specifically Hawaii and some of the middle easy, as well as the Philippines) are no longer in range of ships in SZ 54.
2. Japan gets SIGNIFICANTLY more aircraft.
3. The Allies also get more aircraft, but to no extent as much as the Japanese do, nor are they concentrated in one nation as the Japanese ones are.
4. The extra 7 aircraft Japan gets, compounded by 3 rounds of non-interference by America (and probably England and Australia as well) could make a HUGE difference in the campaign for the Russian far east and China.
5. The location of the Japanese transport in SZ 33 may make the conquest of New South Wales, Queensland or Hawaii more secure earlier in the game.
6. If for no other reason than America has 23 IPC less fleet, and Japan has 0 IPC less/more fleet but Japan has 7 extra aircraft but America only has 4 extra aircraft.
Point being, Japan gets A LOT more units by comparison than America does.
While this is mitigated by what India and Australia get, and while they play a prominant role in the original theory of Japanese containment, I feel (based only on the layout of the board) that these bonsus will be significantly less beneficial to the Allies and thus, perhaps, balance a theater of operations that is woefully out of balance currently.
