Italy a bad design

Played up until turn 4. Germany’s Sealion attempt has 5 INF, 5 ART, 1 Bomber, 3 TAC and 4 FGT vs. 11 UK INF, 1 French INF, 3 FGT and 1 SB. AA gun did nothing. First round dice rolls were par. Second and third rounds NONE of my German planes hit. NONE. Germany built 4 transports first round. By the end of turn 3 the Germans had no fleet other than a couple of Subs as a result of Sealion failing miserably when I TOTALLY should have taken it, but at this point it’s game over as the UK player had been building up his fleet in New Brunswick and the Americans were following suit.

Only positive affect of this was that the UK did not go for the Italian Fleet in UK1 and as a result the Italians were kicking butt, with their full fleet plus an additional transport. By the end of Turn 3 they had the all of North Africa, plus TJ, Syria, South France, Egypt, Bulgaria, Greece and Iraq and were collecting 36 with NO.

Meaningless though. In a game were the Axis start off with less money from the start and it takes so long for the Axis to catch taking territory - which takes so much longer in this game, I’m really looking forward to seeing my first post where somebody claims to have acheived Axis victory. Even if the Germans were successful with Sealion in this game (which they should have been - read above and do the math) it still doesn’t matter because despite the extra IPCS from taking Britian they have wasted so much money that should have gone towards beefing up the Babarossa offensive - and this was in a game where the Japanese declared war on Russia straight away and had units in Yukuts by turn 3.

1941 finally resolved the 3 on 2 flaw that all the other incarnations of AA had by bringing Italy into the game and making it a proper 3 vs. 3. 1940 has gone back on this and made it 6 vs. 3. France doesn’t really count of course, but despite the massive fleet and air power the Japs have they have WAY too much to do on the mainland and the Atlantic and the American NO just adds insult to injury.

We never played with NO in 1941 after a couple of games because we found that it favoured the Axis too much. Without favours the Allies but it was more balanced as a result because the Allied strats were harder to coordinate. We found it made for a better game despite Italy seriously struggling for income.

After a few more games of 1940 we might be coming to this same conclusion. America can never be taken - EVER, unless of course everybody else is out of the game, so the last thing they need is +30 IPCS per turn. Long term without the NO Normady will happen in 1944 - when it should have happened. So far in this game, and again I admit my experience in this one is as limited as everybody else is, I see the Normady campaign happening WAY earlier and there is absolutely nothing the Axis can do about it.

2 cents.

I don’t think it’s inevitable that the RN is going to get destroyed in G1.  The first game I played saw not one but two naval attacks on my fleet repulsed.  I moved the BS, two cruisers, destroyer, and transport that survived into 109.  I supplemented the force w/ two destroyer purchases.

I attacked the Italian navy.  The next turn my navy in 109 was sunk at the cost of most of the Luftwaffe for my opponent.  The UK carrier was sunk by the Italian counterattack.  The french got the Italian survivors.  And so it goes.  In hindsight I could have moved the RN away from the coast and placed the two destroyers by Canada.  Or I could have reinforced it with the CA and had a real fleet to threaten Germany with from the beginnning.

general jason…why did your UK player decide not to attack the German fleet? with the CV, DD, TAC from Gibraltar, and the 3FTR’s in UK?  How did Germany destroy the two CA’s in 112?..ie…did the German fleet come into 112?  If not, then why did the UK player not block 112 with the DD from Gibraltar?

I don’t think it’s inevitable that the RN is going to get destroyed in G1.

It is not 100% but it will be tried like 85% of the time because all these attacks are favorable to others. The problem is THIS.

The first game I played saw not one but two naval attacks on my fleet repulsed.  I moved the BS, two cruisers, destroyer, and transport that survived into 109.  I supplemented the force w/ two destroyer purchases.

The actual German attacks upon UK are only needing tweeking, again the issue id the UK fleet is just sitting at poor odd to defend and the best move is to take out most of that fleet. The exact attacks will have to be worked out. THIS is the problem because its going to be a standard move. The better idea was to make things so they all don’t force specific attacks and ruin the re-playability of the game. This is what happened to AAE as Germany just plays that tank drive and no other ideas are needed.

What we need is different solutions that work to win rather than a few.

I attacked the Italian navy.  The next turn my navy in 109 was sunk at the cost of most of the Luftwaffe for my opponent.  The UK carrier was sunk by the Italian counterattack.  The french got the Italian survivors.

This seems typical. UK will take out Italy, Italy exchanges, and France finishes the job. Oh joy! Mutual destruction of entire navy’s and air forces… :roll:

@general:

Played up until turn 4. Germany’s Sealion attempt has 5 INF, 5 ART, 1 Bomber, 3 TAC and 4 FGT vs. 11 UK INF, 1 French INF, 3 FGT and 1 SB. AA gun did nothing. First round dice rolls were par. Second and third rounds NONE of my German planes hit. NONE. Germany built 4 transports first round. By the end of turn 3 the Germans had no fleet other than a couple of Subs as a result of Sealion failing miserably when I TOTALLY should have taken it, but at this point it’s game over as the UK player had been building up his fleet in New Brunswick and the Americans were following suit.

Only positive affect of this was that the UK did not go for the Italian Fleet in UK1 and as a result the Italians were kicking butt, with their full fleet plus an additional transport. By the end of Turn 3 they had the all of North Africa, plus TJ, Syria, South France, Egypt, Bulgaria, Greece and Iraq and were collecting 36 with NO.

Meaningless though. In a game were the Axis start off with less money from the start and it takes so long for the Axis to catch taking territory - which takes so much longer in this game, I’m really looking forward to seeing my first post where somebody claims to have acheived Axis victory. Even if the Germans were successful with Sealion in this game (which they should have been - read above and do the math) it still doesn’t matter because despite the extra IPCS from taking Britian they have wasted so much money that should have gone towards beefing up the Babarossa offensive - and this was in a game where the Japanese declared war on Russia straight away and had units in Yukuts by turn 3.

1941 finally resolved the 3 on 2 flaw that all the other incarnations of AA had by bringing Italy into the game and making it a proper 3 vs. 3. 1940 has gone back on this and made it 6 vs. 3. France doesn’t really count of course, but despite the massive fleet and air power the Japs have they have WAY too much to do on the mainland and the Atlantic and the American NO just adds insult to injury.

We never played with NO in 1941 after a couple of games because we found that it favoured the Axis too much. Without favours the Allies but it was more balanced as a result because the Allied strats were harder to coordinate. We found it made for a better game despite Italy seriously struggling for income.

After a few more games of 1940 we might be coming to this same conclusion. America can never be taken - EVER, unless of course everybody else is out of the game, so the last thing they need is +30 IPCS per turn. Long term without the NO Normady will happen in 1944 - when it should have happened. So far in this game, and again I admit my experience in this one is as limited as everybody else is, I see the Normady campaign happening WAY earlier and there is absolutely nothing the Axis can do about it.

2 cents.

I’m assuming you built your 4 transports (w/o protection) in SZ 113?  Hmm, I always thought that the UK could reach the transports with 2 FIGs if they landed on the carrier moved to SZ 110 (They get to move 5 spaces with an airbase).  Also, why didn’t the UK player try to block you in SZ 112 with any naval leftovers?  If you’re only building transports G1 there’s at most the BB, CA, and possibly a sub.  Some ships/aircraft could of/should of been in range to annihilate that stack.  I’m guessing the UK player was new or wasn’t familiar with the new airbase/naval base rules.

At least the UK player built infantry!  Imagine if he hadn’t of done that right away!

@miamibeach:

general jason…why did your UK player decide not to attack the German fleet? with the CV, DD, TAC from Gibraltar, and the 3FTR’s in UK?  How did Germany destroy the two CA’s in 112?..ie…did the German fleet come into 112?  If not, then why did the UK player not block 112 with the DD from Gibraltar?

Yeah, this is exactly what I’m asking…  I’m suspecting poor Allied play is the culprit here.

We are, should I say…experienced in this issue;-)

@miamibeach:

We are, should I say…experienced in this issue;-)

I fall asleep EVERY night TORMENTED by the one thought that keeps pounding thru my skull:  HOW CAN GERMANY TAKE OVER BRITAIN WITH A SEALION ATTACK IN AAG40???  Visions of bombers pasting London to the ground and submarines torpedoing UK capital ships in the night stand juxtaposed between images of Churchill’s haughty, drunken, jowly face laughing maniacally over and over again at my pathetic attempts, all in vain, blowing evil-smelling smoke with a rancid cigar clutched between his yellow-stained, crooked British teeth.  What an ***hole.

I wake up, contented, with a new strategy in my head and a smile on my face, but it falls crashing to pieces every time I type it out onto the AxisandAllies.org forums and realize there is yet some hole or unaccounted for flaw in my brilliant new plan.  Or, finally, upon having typed 200 or 300 lines of stupid combat operations just to set the damn scenario up in the first place in a PBF game, I find that the godforsaken dice roller has killed my chances for victory yet again.

Someday, I will be victorious, but today is not that day.  Perchance to dream, given low luck or at least dice than don’t forsake me when the critical roll is needed, I can win.  This is not just war.  THIS IS AXIS AND ALLIES…

@miamibeach:

general jason…why did your UK player decide not to attack the German fleet? with the CV, DD, TAC from Gibraltar, and the 3FTR’s in UK?  How did Germany destroy the two CA’s in 112?..ie…did the German fleet come into 112?  If not, then why did the UK player not block 112 with the DD from Gibraltar?

The entire British fleet save Zone 112 and New Brunswick was destroyed G1. There was no destroyer because I made a suicide attack against 112 with 2 subs in G1 in an effort to disable the carrier from launching. UKE1 saw the Bismark and the cruiser go down off the coast of Denmark with the carrier from 112 moving up to attack thus saving the Italian fleet.  The German transports were still in the North sea and out of range of planes. The British Carrier went down G2. Sea Lion took place G3.

Hindsight, if Sea Lion was to be attempted again I’d go for a Carrier and build in near the Atlantic side of Denmark where my Battleship and Cruiser would be after G1. Unfortunately with the Brits being completely unable to kill this fleet the remaining fleet in 112 would be left to cripple the Italians at Taranto after UKE1.

Could the DD from Gibraltar have sailed to 112 to block the German invasion?

@SgtBlitz:

01. I’m assuming you built your 4 transports (w/o protection) in SZ 113?  Hmm, I always thought that the UK could reach the transports with 2 FIGs if they landed on the carrier moved to SZ 110 (They get to move 5 spaces with an airbase).

02. Also, why didn’t the UK player try to block you in SZ 112 with any naval leftovers?  If you’re only building transports G1 there’s at most the BB, CA, and possibly a sub.  Some ships/aircraft could of/should of been in range to annihilate that stack.

03. I’m guessing the UK player was new or wasn’t familiar with the new airbase/naval base rules.

At least the UK player built infantry!  Imagine if he hadn’t of done that right away!

01. With the exception of the carrier in 112 and Canada the entire British Navy was destroyed in G1. I built 4 transports w/o protection but I assure you they were out of range.

02. He had no naval leftovers other than what I’ve already stated. And yes he did destroy the remaining German fleet minus the transports and subs, again already stated.

03. We are all new to this version of the game.

@miamibeach:

Could the DD from Gibraltar have sailed to 112 to block the German invasion?

Again - already dead in G1.

Sorry, but I cant seem to get my question after the quote…anyway…General Jason…was there a battle in SZ91?

@general:

@miamibeach:

general jason…why did your UK player decide not to attack the German fleet? with the CV, DD, TAC from Gibraltar, and the 3FTR’s in UK?  How did Germany destroy the two CA’s in 112?..ie…did the German fleet come into 112?  If not, then why did the UK player not block 112 with the DD from Gibraltar?

The entire British fleet save Zone 112 and New Brunswick was destroyed G1. There was no destroyer because I made a suicide attack against 112 with 2 subs in G1 in an effort to disable the carrier from launching. UKE1 saw the Bismark and the cruiser go down off the coast of Denmark with the carrier from 112 moving up to attack thus saving the Italian fleet.  The German transports were still in the North sea and out of range of planes. The British Carrier went down G2. Sea Lion took place G3.

Hindsight, if Sea Lion was to be attempted again I’d go for a Carrier and build in near the Atlantic side of Denmark where my Battleship and Cruiser would be after G1. Unfortunately with the Brits being completely unable to kill this fleet the remaining fleet in 112 would be left to cripple the Italians at Taranto after UKE1.

Poor British play all over the place.  The carrier could of and should of been pulled up to SZ 112 and had some planes land on it (it would have been repaired even if it had been damaged from the 2 subs attack on G1 with Gibraltar’s NB.)  The planes landing on the carrier/England (3 FIG and 1 TAC) could have all participated in the SZ 112 fight on UK1 and been used for fodder hits.  The New Brunswick DD/TRN could have rolled on up to SZ 119 on UK1 and acted as a blocker for UK2 in SZ 112 (though its still in range of Germany’s bomber from W. Germany and subs).  If your Sealion took place on G3, Britain should have been building around 8-10 inf a turn and you should have been facing more like 20 inf and 3 planes (Germany has no chance with only 5 loaded trans attacking).

I’m supposing you built 3 trans in the Baltic’s SZ 114 G1 where’d they’d have been safe for a turn, then moved them to SZ 113 for the invasion.  All the UK needs to do in this situation is either keep the carrier back UK1 where they can move it into SZ 112 for UK2 and destroy the transports either in SZ 112 or 113 with planes that will land on the carrier, OR build a Sbmr UK1 that can reach SZ 113 easymode.  4LL UR TRN5P0RT5 B3L0NG T0 M3!!1!!11  :evil:  You’re going to have to build a carrier to protect those weak-ased tranports at some point.

All I’m saying is that Germany simply cannot pull off a Sealion on the cheap against a dedicated British player… (unless they have some uber major luck G1 with a UK air raid and sea attacks followed by an awesome takeover of France finished with some great combat rolls invading England G2 with only 3 loaded transports.)

Unless I am counting something wrong the axis can win without taking any allied capital.  14 VC win with the following
1. Berlin 2. Rome 3. Paris 4. Warsaw 5. Cairo 6. Leningrad 7. Stalingrad 8. Calcutta 9. Hong Kong 10. Shanghai 11. Tokyo
12. Manila 13. Sydney 14. Honululu

@cond1024:

Unless I am counting something wrong the axis can win without taking any allied capital.  14 VC win with the following
1. Berlin 2. Rome 3. Paris 4. Warsaw 5. Cairo 6. Leningrad 7. Stalingrad 8. Calcutta 9. Hong Kong 10. Shanghai 11. Tokyo
12. Manila 13. Sydney 14. Honululu

Paris is an allied capital :-D
However, this may be just as hard or harder: Hawaii and Sydney won’t fall easily if US doesn’t ignore Pacific(coughKGF/IJ)

@calvinhobbesliker:

@cond1024:

Unless I am counting something wrong the axis can win without taking any allied capital.  14 VC win with the following
1. Berlin 2. Rome 3. Paris 4. Warsaw 5. Cairo 6. Leningrad 7. Stalingrad 8. Calcutta 9. Hong Kong 10. Shanghai 11. Tokyo
12. Manila 13. Sydney 14. Honululu

Paris is an allied capital :-D
However, this may be just as hard or harder: Hawaii and Sydney won’t fall easily if US doesn’t ignore Pacific(coughKGF/IJ)

And so is Sydney.

@calvinhobbesliker:

@calvinhobbesliker:

@cond1024:

Unless I am counting something wrong the axis can win without taking any allied capital.  14 VC win with the following
1. Berlin 2. Rome 3. Paris 4. Warsaw 5. Cairo 6. Leningrad 7. Stalingrad 8. Calcutta 9. Hong Kong 10. Shanghai 11. Tokyo
12. Manila 13. Sydney 14. Honululu

Paris is an allied capital :-D
However, this may be just as hard or harder: Hawaii and Sydney won’t fall easily if US doesn’t ignore Pacific(coughKGF/IJ)

And so is Sydney.

Yes you are correct, but I was referring to a major allied capital (Moscow, London, Washington, or SF) and yes I know SF is not a capital in Global.

Thanks for the correction 8-)

I really dont see the problem everyone is complaining about.
If the germans take out the french med fleet on G1, it really shouldnt be a problem to follow up on the next turn and take out the brittish carriergroup.(if it moves in to attack the italians) Yes its going to cost the germans a couple of planes and propably let other parts of the royal navy survive, but on the other hand they get to kill the entire allied med fleet witch is just as good.
This only makes the game fun in my opinion, the germans really have to chose what to kill on G1, since they cannot hit everything.

for me, the game isnt broken anywhere. i dig it.

Not sure Germany should lose so much air taking out a french DD, french CA, UK CV, UK Ftr, UK tac in the med…  probably lose 3-4 german air