Late Game Italy Strategy

[WILD BILL]

Just wondering how many people give S France to Italy for the income, but build a German minor on Greece or Yugo to produce some navy in sz97. The S France sz93 has no air cover in the Med, so it is difficult to drop a lone German transport there unless the Italians move some navy to sz93. The RAF is generally hanging out in the Med, and can easily pick off weakly defended naval units. SZ 97 is protected by the Rome AB, so you can drop both German and Italian naval units into the same sz.

We saw this (German IC built for Greece or Yugo) more before Alpha+2 placed a minor IC on S France (and Normandy). I think that giving S France a minor IC was done to allow the Germans to place ships into the Med w/o paying for an IC. Same for the minor on Normandy, it allows the Germans to drop subs or other ships into the Atlantic. It kinda back fired though, because those ICs are targets for the western allies to produce their own units. It also makes liberating Paris a bad move for the allies in most games because of the loss of US/UK production in Europe.

Ironically in the Global42 version neither S France or Normandy get a minor IC at set-up.

[Private-Panic]

@Gen.:

Thanks Everyone for your thoughts! This really helped!
Elk: I’m not sure if i’m ready for online play! I have only been playing for about a year…
I wouldn’t say that the Uk players are bad it is just that no one pays attention to Italy so I can get away with a lot.

Thanks again everyone!

In the games I play Italy is seen as the weak axis link and so the first to defeat. Italian efforts to contest Africa and the Med are doomed, despite G2 air attacks on the UK Med fleet, which achieve a worthwhile delay in allied offensive plans. In such games Italy’s true contribution to the axis cause is can-openers on the eastern front (while defending Rome). The sooner Italian resources are focused accordingly the better for the axis cause.

WILD BILL raises the prospect of G naval builds in the Med, which I have seen others promote via Greece or Yugo. IMHO G’s first priority is taking Moscow. North Sea naval builds can become effective for defence of the northern European coast, although every ipc is a distraction from the eastern front. G naval builds in the Med are even lower down the priority list.

Of course after the fall of Moscow all options are on the table.

But there are so many variables in this wonderful game that what is true in my games may not be in yours. :-)

[innohub]

This thread reminds of my recent game (though I played no more than 3 games total…) and during this game my opponent stopped me from taking Egypt early effectively. Some of my Italy troops turned into eastern front as can opener with considerable success, getting much needed income while helping Germany to move forward.  Because of the threat from UK/US navies, I end up splitting some income from Germany to boost up the Med Navy in order to keep the Italy Navy alive.  The Navy lasted till around round 22  before it was trashed by Allies (there were so many planes around and I miscalculated the attacker point). Germany was still getting pretty strong in late game actually, and captured most of Russia factories, but it was too late -I made some mistake in Japan side as well and I admitted my loss when both Japan and Italy were suffered.

Overall it was not a successful attempt for Italy but I feel there is perhaps some light on this strategy… need more play to find out though.

[Wolfshanze]

I would actually love the challenge of playing Italy in a Global 40 game and seeing what I can do with them… unfortunately, I do not have Global, nor do I have anyone around me who wants to play Global… I have a hard enough time finding anyone to come over for 1942.  But the thought of playing Italy in Global, is a challenge I’d love to face.

[Nippon-koku]

@WILD:

@Nippon-koku:

I’m not big on a German strafe of Egypt either.  When I play as the UK I use the transport in SZ98 to grab the inf and AA off Malta and drop them in Egypt via SZ81.  Also, I’m a fan of using the India transport to take Persia UK1, so another two guys can be dropped over in Egypt on UK2 if needed.

Not only is the extra protection nice in general, but Germany has to think long and hard about whether or not it’s worth the risk.

Agreed, not willing to risk the Luftwaffe to AAA and inf. A loss of just 3 planes is too much IMO. Now if the Germans were able to get a couple inf (Afrikorps) into Alex via Italian transports (or build their own transport off S France) that is a different story.

Exactly.  I’m always surprised at how many people are willing to lose chunks of the Axis air force (Egypt strafe, Szechwan strafe, etc.) to take out some infantry.

[SubmersedElk]

Just played a game yesterday and my opponent threw away most of Japan’s air force against a Chinese stack on J2. Dice went very poorly for him, but to take that risk at all was something I’d never do. The upside case is nice, but the downside case is game-ending for Axis.

[Nippon-koku]

@SubmersedElk:

Just played a game yesterday and my opponent threw away most of Japan’s air force against a Chinese stack on J2. Dice went very poorly for him, but to take that risk at all was something I’d never do. The upside case is nice, but the downside case is game-ending for Axis.

Some people tend to overestimate how many planes they can lose as the Axis.  I’ve had the same battle you’re talking about and routinely take down 8 or 9 Japanese planes.  In the short run Japan looks alright, since China is wiped off (plus the couple of other units I put in there).  But 8 or 9 planes down is a lot to overcome in the long run.

[theROCmonster]

The reason people are willing to loose so many planes as Germany or Japan in large attacks against many units is because of the strategic implications of the subsequent result (the way the board would look after the attack).

When Germany clears Egypt of units it is because Italy can then take the territory with a lot of ground units left over, and UK has no great way of retaking it outside of an early factory in Persia, and even then its not good. So Germany looses a lot of air and money to then allow the Italy to grab a stranglehold on Egypt for the rest of the game.

Japan loosing a lot of air in the attack on Szchewan to kill off all the Chinese units is so that China is left with nothing on the board except a few infantry every round, and you can push through and take the rest of China’s PU’s quicker. This saves ground units that would have died or had to be used as implied pressure on china that can be used for India. Granted you are weaker vs a US Pacific first, but in that case you can just push on through China into Russia’s back door.

[taamvan]

That is indeed the strategy, and it relies on the allies having pretty bad luck to smash up those stacks without losing 50% of your starting planes.

Germany can replace the planes, but not at the same time as it builds mechs, armor stax
Japan has even more planes, but it needs even more than Germany does because without them, its a paper tiger.

The problem with doing these stub attacks is if you lose more than 50% of your starting air power before turn 5, you will not be able to force your victory cities and strategic objectives.  The consequences are felt several turns later (7,8), when you cant smash stax because you lost your mobile strikeforce.