Flying over pro-neutrals

[AldoRaine]

Would it be possible for an allied plane to fly over Iraq in the non-combat phase if Iraq was attacked during the previous combat phase?  From what I can tell this is a legal move but I would like some clarification.

Thanks.

[Panther]

@AldoRaine:

Would it be possible for an allied plane to fly over Iraq in the non-combat phase if Iraq was attacked during the previous combat phase?  From what I can tell this is a legal move but I would like some clarification.

You are correct, this is legal.
When Iraq (as a pro-axis neutral) is attacked, it immediately becomes part of the Axis alliance - and is no longer neutral then.
Depending on the outcome of the battle, from the Allies’ point of view, Iraq is either friendly (when captured) or hostile (the attack failed) then. In any case allied air units may fly over Iraq in NCM.

[Panther]

@ShadowHAwk:

Who will control iraq and get the money when you dont win the combat?

AFAIK as long as it is not controlled by any side it is still neutral.

How do you come to think so?

Please see the rulebook:

Unfriendly Neutrals
Neutrals that are friendly to the side opposing your side are
said to be unfriendly neutrals. For example, Germany will
have to fight its way into Yugoslavia, which is a pro-Allies
neutral territory.
Moving into an unfriendly neutral is considered a combat
move and any combat must be resolved during the Conduct
Combat phase (see “Combat Move,” page 12). Before the
neutral territory can be taken control of by the invading
power, all of the neutral’s standing army units must be
eliminated. Air units can’t fly over an unfriendly neutral
unless they are attacking it.
When a neutral territory is invaded, it’s no longer considered
neutral and immediately becomes part of the alliance
opposing the power that attacked it. For example, if Germany
attacked Yugoslavia, Yugoslavia would join the Allies. Also,
its standing army units are immediately placed in it. Choose
any power from among those on the side that the territory
has joined, and use that power’s infantry units to represent
these forces. The player that controls the chosen power will
control the territory’s units for the duration of the battle. This
player places the territory’s units on the board and manages
them when they conduct combat. Don’t mix or confuse the
territory’s units with the units of another power, including the
power managing the territory’s pieces on the board.
Capturing an unfriendly neutral gives the capturing player
the IPC income of the territory. The invading power places
its national control marker on the territory, and its national
production level is adjusted upward by the value of the
captured territory.
If the attack upon the formerly neutral territory is
unsuccessful (the territory is not captured), any remaining
defending units stay in the territory but can’t move. The
territory remains uncontrolled (place a national control
marker on it face down to indicate its new status), but units
from the side it’s now allied with can move into it and take
control of it and its remaining units in the same way as if it
were a friendly neutral.

Please ask if anything remains unclear. :-)

[KaLeu]

I never thought of this before, but does this indeed imply that a plane could land in a territory that has joined an alliance in this manner, even when no land units of that alliance have entered that territory?

For example, if Germany attacked Yugoslavia G1 and withdrew into Romania (a common stratagem), an the UK does the popular SZ97 (“Taranto”) attack, can surviving British planes then land in Yugoslavia?

[Panther]

@Herr:

I never thought of this before, but does this indeed imply that a plane could land in a territory that has joined an alliance in this manner, even when no land units of that alliance have entered that territory?

For example, if Germany attacked Yugoslavia G1 and withdrew into Romania (a common stratagem), an the UK does the popular SZ97 (“Taranto”) attack, can surviving British planes then land in Yugoslavia?

This case is a bit different: It is true, that Yugoslavia immediately joins the Allies, but the surviving British planes in your example are not allowed to land there, because of this rule:

@rulebook:

Air Units: An air unit must end its move in an eligible
landing space. Air units can land in any territory that
was friendly (but not friendly neutral) at the start of the
current turn.

HTH :-)

Edited to mark my misunderstanding - see next postings.

[KaLeu]

But according to the other rule, Yugoslavia “is no longer considered neutral and immediately becomes part of the alliance opposing the power that attacked it”. So if Germany attacks Yugoslavia and then retreats from it, that rule would imply that Yugoslavia is no longer a neutral (and thus, also no longer a friendly neutral), but a full member of the Allies. So at the start of the British turn, it would be friendly, and not friendly neutral.

[Panther]

@Herr:

But according to the other rule, Yugoslavia “is no longer considered neutral and immediately becomes part of the alliance opposing the power that attacked it”. So if Germany attacks Yugoslavia and then retreats from it, that rule would imply that Yugoslavia is no longer a neutral (and thus, also no longer a friendly neutral), but a full member of the Allies. So at the start of the British turn, it would be friendly, and not friendly neutral.

You are completely right. For any reason I misread your example mixing in parts of the first posting that was discussed here in this thread.
When it comes to the British turn, Yugoslavia is an Ally, because of the German attack before, so the territory of Yugoslavia is friendly to the British.

So in NCM the British fighters may land there.

Sorry for the confusion and thank you for pointing it out. :-)

[Panther]

I remember a discussion in the FAQ thread about neutrals joining the alliance opposed to the attacker, where Krieghund confirmed, that even the declaration of an amphibious assault leads to the consequences we are discussing here.

See around
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=28562.msg1401451#msg1401451
if you are interested…

[Wolfshanze]

@P@nther:

Depending on the outcome of the battle, from the Allies’ point of view…

Well from my point of view, the Jedi are evil… oh wait, wrong thread, sorry…

[KaLeu]

@P@nther:

When it comes to the British turn, Yugoslavia is an Ally, because of the German attack before, so the territory of Yugoslavia is friendly to the British.

So in NCM the British fighters may land there.

Thank you! Before this thread, this effect had never really occurred to me, and I think I may have let a British plane or two sink into the Adriatic when it could have landed in Yugoslavia. Not that it would really have survived there anyway, but it’s always good to make life a bit harder for Italy when taking it.