Here’s the situation (1940 2nd ed)…
Japan has several warships and transports in one sea zone, UK has one destroyer there, Japan is up and declares war that turn…can the Japan transports be loaded and then moved somewhere else to offload in the combat move phase (i.e. load in the zone with the destroyer then leave that zone to offload)? I’m googling and finding mixed results. I know transports can’t normally load/offload in hostile zones, but because Japan declared war that turn then moved out during the combat phase, I thought this was a legal loophole.
Who knows for sure? Thanks!
Found this here…sounds like it IS a loophole.
http://www.wizards.com/\AvalonHill\rules\AA Pacific 1940 FAQ_VER1.pdf
“Important exception – During the combat movement phase following the announced declaration of war,
transports already in sea zones that have just become hostile may be loaded in those sea zones (but not
in other hostile sea zones). This may occur only during the first Combat Move phase following the
announced declaration of war. Once that initial combat movement phase is over, normal transport
loading restrictions apply.”
If you’ve declared war then you can’t load in a zone where there is a hostile destroyer. For example if Germany has a transport in 112, but USA has a factory in Norway, then USA can place a dd in 112 and thereby prevent Germany from loading in that zone during its next turn (if it survives until the German turn).
Next time consider pre-loading the transport.
Edit: turns out there is an exception allowing Japan to load in that circumstance…always learning new things about this game.
Found this here…sounds like it IS a loophole.
…
http://www.wizards.com/\AvalonHill\rules\AA Pacific 1940 FAQ_VER1.pdf
…
The link you quoted links to the FAQ of Pacific 1940, first edition.
That exception is to be found in the rulebook of the 2nd Edition now.
See
@rulebook:
…
Once a state of
war is entered into, all territories and sea zones
controlled by or containing units belonging to
the power or powers on which you declared war
instantly become hostile to your units, and the
normal restrictions of moving into or through hostile
spaces apply, with one exception. During your
Combat Move phase in which you entered into a
state of war, your transports that are already in sea
zones that have just become hostile may be loaded
in those sea zones (but not in other hostile sea
zones). In effect, transports may be loaded in their
initial sea zones for amphibious assaults before war
is declared, while the sea zone is still friendly.
…
HTH :-)
If you’ve declared war then you can’t load in a zone where there is a hostile destroyer. For example if Germany has a transport in 112, but USA has a factory in Norway, then USA can place a dd in 112 and thereby prevent Germany from loading in that zone during its next turn (if it survives until the German turn).
…
True for the next turn, but not only concerning Destroyers. It is the fact of a seazone being hostile that prevents a transport from loading then.
Thanks, Panther! Knew that rule was somewhere but couldn’t find it haha. Looks like it is a legal move.
Never heard of this rule, when is this rule made. The Global 40 rules are mostly the same as Europe version, here and there some additional pacific rules, but I still believe it shouldnt be possible to load in a hostile seazone, without doing combat first?!
Also on page 12 of Europe rules as a legal exception.
@cds:
Never heard of this rule, when is this rule made.
It was introduced by the official FAQ for the first edition games. It has been always been part of the rulebooks in the 2nd Edition games.
Right, it has always been a part of 2nd edition and the Alphas…
HOWEVER
The question was about Japan and UK. Now you have to be careful there. There IS a loophole that makes it possible to get around the exception, that is, it is possible to stick a UK destroyer in the Japanese fleet and prevent Japan from loading them in combat move EVEN THOUGH Japan and UK were not at war at the end of the UK turn.
This is possible if the UK does not declare war on Japan and then ANZAC DOES. Because their politics are married (UK/ANZAC) then Japan starts her turn at war with UK/ANZAC. The exception only applies if you declare war, initiating the at war status, but with the ANZAC declaration loophole, Japan was at war with UK/ANZ going into the turn, however since UK was not at war with Japan on UK turn, then UK was able to move a surface ship into the Japanese loading zone.
This IS a loophole and I believe against the spirit of the rules. If you don’t like it, I would suggest agreeing with your opponent that you can’t do a UK ship into Japan fleet followed by ANZAC DOW. But if you want to play by the rules as written, then this is a possibility and you’d better just leave some transports loaded at the end of J turn like Zhukov said
Note that this weaselly strategy does have its drawbacks, however.
You are doing an unprovoked DOW on Japan, which allows Japan to keep USA out of the war until round 4.
You will not collect the UK NO because you are not at war (you will get the ANZ NO for Malaya and possibly the one for New Guinea, however)
You are giving up a UK ship probably for no more than a ding on a capital ship
You need to be in a situation where Japan actually has multiple transports that are prepared to load ground units (probably from Kwangsi). If there’s only 1 or 2, probably not worth it anyway.
And one addition: If exploiting that loophole would be unbearable to the plans you have with Japan you could load units during NCM in the turn prior to your planned DOW. In this case the units are loaded at the beginning of the next turn and do amphibious assault for sure.
The drawback of this strategy is that you have reduced strategy options with those ground units which otherwise could make ground operations instead which is not possible if the end the turn being loaded on a transport.
Given the cost of that strategy to the UK, I would call it within the spirit of the game. It’s not like it’s a game breaking element - it’s part of Japan’s job to account for it if he’s not willing to take that risk. That kind of stunt would set the Allies back the lost ship, plus 2-3 turns of US war income and unrestricted movement - minus whatever it set Japan back, which would have to be something of great value indeed to be a worthwhile play.
If an opponent wants to make a mistake you should let him!
Still a good idea to make sure your opponent knows about this possibility before you spring it on him.
Still a good idea to make sure your opponent knows about this possibility before you spring it on him.
Since the main benefit of that gambit is psychological, you may be best off letting it come as a surprise!
Yeah, well I meant if you want to be sure you don’t lose a playmate…
