@ABWorsham:
Do many of you attack Russia before the 4th round? Before any Eastern infantry can reinforce Moscow?
You guys are my General Staff. I would love your thoughts and beliefs.
The Eastern troops get there on R6 and R7. The earliest round Germany can make a real attack on Moscow is G5. G6 is a good moment to attack or feint an attack.
It is critical to not overextend yourself or take major risks on G1 and G2. For example, don’t rush yourself conquering Southern France and/or Normandy–those can wait. Better to improve your odds/exchange in France.
I would argue it’s better to decide early on whether you want to Sea Lion or Barbarossa or concentrate on the Med and then execute your plan, unless your opponent blunders and an opportunity arises. Some players feint both Barbarossa and Sea Lion and this can work but be sure keep a long-term plan in view at all times. Sooner or later, Axis needs to take a capital if it wants to win.
Can someone further explain the strategy of retreating the BB back to SZ112 during your attack on SZ111 or SZ110? I do not fully understand how it works. Also are you only retreating the BB or everything? I don’t have my rules to reference, can you retreat individual units out or is it all or none? Thanks for the help and info.
They are referring to a “hit and run” attack, the same way you attack Yugoslavia.
The entire suriving set of non-plane units may withdraw 1 square to any space that any of them came from. Â In order to withdraw, the enemy must survive your attack, and you choose to “retreat” without wiping them out. Â Having typically taken a hit on the battleship, you can move it to 112 or any other square towards the direction that any attacker came through. Â
If you succeed in your attacks (ie get lucky) and wipe out the enemy, you are stuck in that square. Â I call these “spoiling” attacks because the key is taking just enough stuff into the battle that you kill all but one of the defenders, then you use the “retreat” to reposition yourself in a way you could not have otherwise.
The planes also have to retreat, but they can go anywhere they like during noncom. Since you want to keep the BB the most badly, it would make more sense to lose subs and planes first, then he runs away (rather than getting stuck next to UK by himself and annihilated). But if any sea units survive, they all retreat together.
Can someone further explain the strategy of retreating the BB back to SZ112 during your attack on SZ111 or SZ110? I do not fully understand how it works. Also are you only retreating the BB or everything? I don’t have my rules to reference, can you retreat individual units out or is it all or none? Thanks for the help and info.
Ideally, you leave the UK with a damaged BB that can’t be protected from a follow-up attack on G2, and your BB retreats to SZ112 where it covers the trans/cruiser and any ships bought in G1 (usually AC, often also a DD/sub). BB+AC+5 planes (3 from scramble) makes it a poor choice for the UK to try to attack, leaving you with a fleet that can be used in various ways, either protecting Germany, setting up for Sealion, moving down to the Med, or moving troops through the Baltic. Since Germany really doesn’t have the luxury of buying ships past G1 if it wants to be successful in the attack on Russia, the fleet becomes an irreplaceable strategic asset. If it survives into G6, it can then form the core of a larger fleet (supplement with additional AC/subs) to be used more offensively.
If you leave the UK BB damaged as you retreat, I assume UK fixes it by G2. How much do you send on G2 to finish it off and avoid possible scramble. Will UK normally combine the left over BB with the DD and transport in SZ109?
They are referring to a “hit and run” attack, the same way you attack Yugoslavia.
In short, Germany does not want to trade planes with the UK once all non-destroyer ships in range have been sunk.
So, depending if the UK scrambles or not, you may have an opportunity to sink the three ships AND retreat the BB back to where you intend to place your CV, DD, SS and NCM in your CR and CV. This would put a SS, DD, CV, CR, BB, 2 FTR in SZ 112 and up to three more FTR/TAC scrambling over them.
The UK would be ill served to attack this with just aircraft or maybe a destroyer as fodder for multiple rounds of purchases. It also forces the UK to place ships in Canada due to the immediate threat and proximity of the German Navy.
To achieve this, you need the following to occur:
Score at a minimum 4 total hits (2 on BB, 1 on each CR) in the first round of throwing dice on your attack - a second round of combat could feasibly eliminate everything that remains.
Defender does not elect to save the BB by trading out FTR as losses.
Defending ships cannot score more than 2 hits - you take both SS as casualties.
Scrambled aircraft do not score more than 1 hit - you absorb that hit with your BB.
You could feasibly trade a FTR to save the BB for a retreat if the defender scores more hits - and it may be worthwhile to trade a FTR to save a BB for Germany - trading a 10 IPC unit to preserve a 20 IPC Naval unit is a logical and plausible consideration. This is debatable, but in my mind a FTR isn’t very useful after maybe G2 or G3 (ARM will pump up your TAC in Russia anyways). So you do have some wiggle room here in determining casualties.
A scenario like this would mean that all three defending ships are sunk and only scrambled FTR remain. As the attacker you have the option after both sides have rolled dice and removed their casualties to retreat before rolling dice again. This would be the time to retreat the BB to SZ 112, which will repair at the beginning if your next turn.
This opportunistic move will make your fleet dangerous wherever it goes with no Allied naval strength remaining in the Atlantic. Especially if you combine SB/SS purchases after G3 that can threaten naval fleets in a suicide mission to sink a flotilla of ships sitting off of Gib late in the game.
The added bonus is that SB can typically get back into the Russian theater quickly, so they act as a spearhead on two fronts for multiple turns - deterring the placement of an allied fleet off the UK or off of Gib while constantly being in striking range of a Russian stack that decided to make a stand against the German advance.
If you leave the UK BB damaged as you retreat, I assume UK fixes it by G2. How much do you send on G2 to finish it off and avoid possible scramble. Will UK normally combine the left over BB with the DD and transport in SZ109?
German planes on G2 are really flexible. There is a NB in SZ 111 for the German fleet to repair, so you have options to attack and absorb some losses if the ships end up there.
It really depends on the situation and terrain.
Worst case scenario would be:
1. You lost the battle in SZ 105, the DD survived and sailed back to SZ 109
2. UK sailed CR back from SZ 91 to SZ 109
3. UK kept DD in SZ 109
4. UK moved the now-repaired BB to SZ 109
5. UK flew FTR from Gib to London or landed on the CV
6. UK has 3-4 FTR to scramble
7. UK bought and placed a CV in SZ 109.
That would be 2 DD, 1 CR, 1 BB, 1 CV and 3+ FTR (scramble + CV) in SZ 109.
I wouldn’t be too excited to lead the attack with a German fleet at that point. Although the movement out of the Med by the UK bodes well for the Italians to put some muscle out early and maybe 1-2 punch that fleet with their own ending a round and the Germans following them up.
This is why I’d rather trade planes to make sure their fleet is gone on G1 - otherwise they will be a constant annoyance in Europe until I deal with their fleet. Left to their own devices, you will not break their Naval strength unless you take Moscow and can drop 10 SS and multiple SB to chase them away.
Can someone further explain the strategy of retreating the BB back to SZ112 during your attack on SZ111 or SZ110? I do not fully understand how it works. Also are you only retreating the BB or everything? I don’t have my rules to reference, can you retreat individual units out or is it all or none? Thanks for the help and info.
Ideally, you leave the UK with a damaged BB that can’t be protected from a follow-up attack on G2, and your BB retreats to SZ112 where it covers the trans/cruiser and any ships bought in G1 (usually AC, often also a DD/sub). BB+AC+5 planes (3 from scramble) makes it a poor choice for the UK to try to attack, leaving you with a fleet that can be used in various ways, either protecting Germany, setting up for Sealion, moving down to the Med, or moving troops through the Baltic. Since Germany really doesn’t have the luxury of buying ships past G1 if it wants to be successful in the attack on Russia, the fleet becomes an irreplaceable strategic asset. If it survives into G6, it can then form the core of a larger fleet (supplement with additional AC/subs) to be used more offensively.
Not seeing how the UK BB in either 110 or 111 cannot be protected from a G2 attack. It’ll repair at the beginning of its turn and can retreat far enough as to not be hit.
Am I missing something?
BB in 111 doesn’t repair at the beginning of its turn - no harbor in Scotland.
Not seeing how the UK BB in either 110 or 111 cannot be protected from a G2 attack. It’ll repair at the beginning of its turn and can retreat far enough as to not be hit.
In 111, the BB can only move 2 spaces, while the German units in 112 will be able to move 3. So the BB could go to 109, or to Iceland (where scrambled Allied figs can defend it) but if Germany bought an AC G1, then Germany should be in position to destroy it G2.
BB in 111 doesn’t repair at the beginning of its turn - no harbor in Scotland.
Good call on that. I was too 110 centric.
I suppose if I had a BB survive in 111 I’d send it to 109 to meet up with any ships I had left. If people send the house at 110 and 111 you may be looking at 2 DD, the BB and a cruiser. I usually buy 2 fighters for UK1, which would mean 6 scrambles (if both bases are utilized).
I have seen people reference ships in SZ105 a couple times now. I do not see anything on the set up charts that would have ships in SZ105. Can someone clarify this?
I have seen people reference ships in SZ105 a couple times now. I do not see anything on the set up charts that would have ships in SZ105. Can someone clarify this?
My guess is they meant 106, over in Canada
Sending the damaged BB to SZ109 to get some air cover is about the best that can be done, but it still can’t survive if Germany wants to kill it in G2.
I have seen people reference ships in SZ105 a couple times now. I do not see anything on the set up charts that would have ships in SZ105. Can someone clarify this?
This is in reference to the DD and TT off of Canada. I may have mistakenly put the incorrect SZ number in my write-up.
Given the ability for FTR to scramble over the DD and TT off of the UK, sending the SS to the DD/TT pair in Canada is better odds and serves to better isolate N.Africa and/or Gib from UK reinforcements for at least a round with a legitimate Sea Lion threat.
Yes to nearly everything said above.
But I’d challenge you to take it one step further than thinking about specific purchases - think about how those purchases can provide flexibility, afford you to take attacks of opportunity, and keep your opponent off balance. The units follow the philosophy, not the other way around.
So a purchase of a CV/DD/ Sub is about much more than just the math… it is about Germany’s ability to project power in a variety of directions. G2 can be a Gibraltar strike, you can hit Morocco, you can bend to the other side of the UK, hit Scotland, and convoy raid up to 8 IPCs… and keep doing it until the UK forces you off the spot. You could go into the Baltic. On G3, you could flex back up to 112 if you own Gibraltar… or, you could go into the Med to support Italy. It goes on and on.
So take the same approach on land… what buys you the most flexibility? Certainly not infantry or artillery, though they’re necessary at some volume. Instead, make sure to diversify. An example of a potential G2 purchase for me might be a bomber, destroyer, transport, armor, five mech infantry, five infantry. A few infantry to defend the coast, a few infantry to serve as fodder in the fight for Moscow, and a whole bunch of versatile mechanized forces to form an armored fist on the front.
If you keep diversifying, you find yourself capable of handling just about anything the Allies throw at you, and you can throttle Russia at your leisure. If you become too monolithic, too predictable, it allows the Allied player to easily see your weakness and exploit it.
I will take your advice to heart.
The way I view Germany and Italy is like this. Germany is your big powerhouse, you want Germany to making as much income as possible from territory and bonuses because they will need to make big investments in air and armor as well as troops when you invade Russia, also I find that if you can get a German naval and ground force operating alongside Italy you can guarantee victory in Africa and the middle east since it requires big investments from USA and Britain to knock out. Italy has 3 priorities, getting control of the med, Getting control of Egypt (also want Germans in there so they can get a bonus) and either take the middle east or take south Africa. Some players like to use Italy in Russia as well but I find this just weakens Italy’s efforts in Africa.
If you are going to help Germany vs Russia go by Persia(if you are doing well) or send a tank or two and some mechs + your S bomber.
Please keep us updated on your first and the following games you played Worsham.
Thank you.
@aequitas:
Please keep us updated on your first and the following games you played Worsham.
Thank you.
The battle will take place this Friday with two other members of A&A.org in East Texas. We’re always looking for an forth player.
