Round 1 as Germany (typical actions?)

[rjkesq82]

Is this standard for Germany to do Round 1? And if so, is it easily/always achievable?

1. Luftwaffe and small fleet of ships and subs strategically eliminate UK Navy around Britain.
2. Take France Out

[cyanight]

Those are pretty standard moves although you can’t eliminate all the Royal Navy without luck.  Because UK can scramble their planes you have to send more units than what you need to take out the ships.  If you don’t do this you could lose many planes and possibly the battles.  Here is the standard moves I make for Germany on round 1.

France  7 infantry, 3 artillery, 6 tanks, 4 mechanized infantry (100%)

• Holland/Belgium: 4 infantry, 2 artillery, 3 tanks

• Western Germany: 3 infantry, 4 mechanized infantry, 1 artillery

• Greater Southern Germany: 3 tanks

Yugoslavia  6 infantry, 2 artillery,  3 tanks, 1 fighter, 1 tactical bomber (100%)

• Greater Southern Germany: 6 infantry, 2 artillery

• Slovakia/Hungary: 1 tank, 1 fighter

• Romania: 1 tank

• Poland: 1 tank, 1 tactical bomber

Seazone 110  3 fighters, 3 tactical bombers, 1 strategic bombers, 2 submarines  (100%/91% scramble 3 fighters)

• Western Germany: 2 fighters, 2 tactical bombers

• Germany: 1 tactical bomber, 1 strategic bombers

• Holland/Belgium: 1 fighter

• SZ 103: 1 submarine

• SZ 108: 1 submarine

Seazone 111  1 fighters, 1 tactical bombers, 1 strategic bombers, 1 submarines, 1 battleship (98.2%/81.2 scramble 1 fighter)

• Norway: 1 fighter

• Western Germany: 1 tactical bombers

• Germany: 1 strategic bombers

• SZ 124: 1 submarine

• SZ 113: 1 battleship

• Note: If you get 3 hits the first round then retreat the battleship to sz112 with your navy.  If you did not build a navy then you can continue the attack instead of retreating.  By retreating you might be able to save your battleship if grouped with your other navy.

Seazone 106  2 submarines (87.6%)

• SZ 118: 1 submarine

• SZ 117: 1 submarine

Activate - Bulgaria

• Romania: 2 infantry

Activate - Finland

• Norway: 3 infantry

[rjkesq82]

Cyannight - Thank you for the awesome response! I do VERY similar moves…I didn’t even think to activate the 2 friendly neutrals though, which I will try next turn. I also overkill France and send a tac bomber (bit me in the butt last time as it was shot down), and ironically, SZ111 I believe you said was the one with lowest odds…and sure enough, that is the one that blew up in my face. I retreated my battleship and one or two fighters only I didn’t even build a navy so it died anyway. It was the first time it happened to me like that, but heck, with 80%, thats 1 time every 5 games that will happen.

[cyanight]

If you send one od the subs that is attacking sz106 to sz111 the attack is (100%/94.6  scramble).  I almost always buy 5 subs round 1 with Germany and build them in sz112 so I’m never expecting to win the combat in sz 111.  I only go one round and then back off the battleship. Unless he hits with every piece I’m guaranteed to keep my planes.  Since I bought 5 subs the remaining ships in sz 111 have nowhere to run.  Its usually a smoking battleship(King George).

[Young Grasshopper]

This strategy is far from typical, but here’s my G1 if I want to go hard toward Moscow…

Research & Development:
None

Repair Units & Facilities:
None

Purchase New Units:
1 Strategic Bomber
1 Fighter
1 Destroyer

Combat Movement:
SZ#106 - 1 Submarine
SZ#110 - 2 Submarines, 1 Battleship, 2 Fighters, 2 T.Bombers, 1 S.Bomber
SZ#111 - 2 Submarines, 2 Fighters, 1 T.Bomber, 1 S.Bomber
France - 7 Infantry, 4 M.Infantry, 3 Artillery, 3 Tanks
Baltic States - 3 Infantry, 2 Tanks, 1 T.Bomber
Eastern Poland - 2 Infantry. 3 Tanks
Bessarabia - 2 Infantry, 1 Tank, 1 Fighter, 1 T.Bomber

Non-Combat Movement:
1 Cruiser, 1 Transport into SZ#113 / 2 Infantry from Germany into Norway
3 Infantry from Norway into Finland
3 Infantry from Germany into W.Germany
6 Infantry, 3 Artillery, 1 AA Gun from Germany into Poland
6 Infantry, 2 Artillery, from S.Germany into Slovakia
1 AA Gun from Germany into Slovakia
1 AA Gun from Germany into W.Germany
3 AA Guns from W.Germany into N.Italy
1 T.Bomber from Poland into Poland
1 T.Bomber from Germany into Poland
1 Fighter from Slovakia into Slovakia
All surviving air units from the Atlantic into W.Germany

Place new units:
1 Strategic Bomber into W.Germany
1 Fighter into W. Germany
1 Destroyer into SZ#113

Collect income:
$38 income
$5 National objective
$19 Capital gain
= $62

[rjkesq82]

Young Grasshopper - That is a VERY cool strategy…I would love to see someone in my game group pull that out because nobody would expect it.  So you go at Russia round 1.

Does everyone else attack Russia round 1? Do some of you wait until Round 3 or 4?

What round do you attack as Germany?

[Witt]

Never on one. Usually three, but two can work if I only got four hits on Yugo on G1(retreat to Romania).

[rjkesq82]

Round Three is when I have gone after them both games too Witt…

[Witt]

I like to neutralise England and consolidate gains, before moving on my real enemy:Russia.
Taking Moscow has been my goal since starting playing A&A in 87.
I would add I am a poor Axis player. The Allies suit me better(unfortunately).

[ItIsILeClerc]

Yep -decent and standard opening, rjk.
IMHO those two points you mentioned are a must.

I also go for Moscow GE3.
I must admit I never tried GE1, but I know that Russia can stall a GE2 for 1 turn, making it have the same effects as a GE3. Unless Germany didn’t take France and/or the Royal Navy and has a better position for more troops.

[knp7765]

As Germany, I wait until round 3 or 4 to attack Russia. This way I have the maximum amount of units on the border.

Also, I usually send 2 subs to sink that UK Cruiser in SZ 91. That is a good help for Italy.

[cyanight]

I used to attack Russia on G1 but I like to wait until turn 2 or 3.  The main reason is your attack on France is weak.  Its around 94% but you wont be able to keep many units. I have rolled so badly with that attack on round one that I lose tanks.  For this reason I believe its better to send all 6 tanks and overkill the attack to minimize casualties.  Instead of only having 2 -3 tanks left you will have 6 tanks, 4 mech, 1-3Art, 0-3 inf.  I want to take France with the least amount of casualties.  This is another reason why I never send planes to France either.

I like Young Grasshoppers attack on SZ 110 though,  Its only 88% if they scramble but he has more “hit soakers” with that battleship there.  Although its unlikely that the battleship will survive.

On a side note I’m really wondering if Sealion is a trap now…  Played a game last night where I was UK and Russia.  UK was on the verge of losing their capital and managed to hold out past turn 6.  Never have I seen Russia so strong.  I was building mech and tanks with Russia.  Took Finland, Irac, Ethiopia, Romania, Poland with an economy of 52 on round 6. When Germany started to bomb UK every round with 2-4 bombers and 4 fighter escorts every turn UK could still build 3-5 units after repair.  I started at that point to have Russia build 6 tanks during round 2 and 3.  After that I built all mech and 1 fighter each round.  Wiped out Germany’s main stack and have 8 tanks, 2 mech, 2 inf, 2 art, 2AAA guns next to Germany.  Germany has nothing to take that back with because all the planes are in Scotland guarding his navy or on his carrier in SZ 111.  Besides that he has only 6 inf spread out on that front.  If you cannot complete a Sealion before turn 3-4 then you need to abort.  Even then I’m wondering if its still a trap.

[strategic planner]

@cyanight:

I used to attack Russia on G1 but I like to wait until turn 2 or 3.  The main reason is your attack on France is weak.  Its around 94% but you wont be able to keep many units. I have rolled so badly with that attack on round one that I lose tanks.  For this reason I believe its better to send all 6 tanks and overkill the attack to minimize casualties.  Instead of only having 2 -3 tanks left you will have 6 tanks, 4 mech, 1-3Art, 0-3 inf.   I want to take France with the least amount of casualties.  This is another reason why I never send planes to France either.

I like Young Grasshoppers attack on SZ 110 though,  Its only 88% if they scramble but he has more “hit soakers” with that battleship there.  Although its unlikely that the battleship will survive.

On a side note I’m really wondering if Sealion is a trap now…  Played a game last night where I was UK and Russia.  UK was on the verge of losing their capital and managed to hold out past turn 6.  Never have I seen Russia so strong.  I was building mech and tanks with Russia.  Took Finland, Irac, Ethiopia, Romania, Poland with an economy of 52 on round 6. When Germany started to bomb UK every round with 2-4 bombers and 4 fighter escorts every turn UK could still build 3-5 units after repair.   I started at that point to have Russia build 6 tanks during round 2 and 3.  After that I built all mech and 1 fighter each round.  Wiped out Germany’s main stack and have 8 tanks, 2 mech, 2 inf, 2 art, 2AAA guns next to Germany.  Germany has nothing to take that back with because all the planes are in Scotland guarding his navy or on his carrier in SZ 111.  Besides that he has only 6 inf spread out on that front.  If you cannot complete a Sealion before turn 3-4 then you need to abort.  Even then I’m wondering if its still a trap.

Only way id do sea lion is if japan was KRF thru china and siberia, and toying with the usa. Which is risky. Russia must be conquered in this game, so if something happens in france germany can turn around to face england with japan defending russia’s eastern front

[ItIsILeClerc]

Haha Cyan, you just made my day  :-P:

---

But seriously now, I agree with your sidenote 100%!
Russia needs INF + ART if it sees Germany going for Barbarossa but every warship Germany builds, diminishes that need. Every turn Germany builds ships (only), Russia can build MECH+ARM (only) and even mix in some FTR/TAC later on. If Germany is very serious about Sea Lion, Russia can build an IC in Ukraine for even more units at the front.
IMHO, if Germany cannot take London (in force!) by turn 3, SL has to be aborted. Forget about turn 4 if you want to believe me on my blue eyes. Even more so because the USA will be in the war by the end of Turn 3 no matter what.

And you are Always such a firm believer in Sea Lion, Cyanight, what happened?
If I am allowed to guess, you did something completely different with Russia this time? That is often the very difference the allies need during a Sea Lion: an offensive mind set from Russia, rather than a defensive one. NOT to the extend of kamikaze-attacks of course but you get the picture ;-).

About the Russian economy: just 52? Did Japan take 11 territories from you? Because in my books you should have had 63IPCs, 68 even if the Murmansk route was still open. And what about Norway (you had Finland already)? RU7?

I have lost my interest in London if I play with Germany for the very reasons you mentioned. Plus, Russian economy booms, but German economy lags behind even if it DOES capture London… The only exception for me is taking London by surprise, if/when it is ill-prepared and most likely also under the conditions Strategic Planner just mentioned.

[cyanight]

ItIsILeClerc Ah one of my favorite quotes from Star Wars, Did I mention my son is named Luke and daughter Leia?  :)

Anyways… Yes, I have been a strong supporter of Sealion and now really doubting its effectiveness.  I am sure the role change for Russia really helped. I first did it just to get Germany’s attention but then realized I’m in the driver’s seat and control Germany’s east front. Japan had a lot of the far east territories but that is about to change also. He failed to take India and backed his navy to the Philippines. The crazy thing is I bought an IC in Persia with UK on turn 2 because I thought his Sealion was a joke or fake. Still have not produced anything from that IC because London is a bit more important, lol. Never had so much fun playing Russia :)

[ItIsILeClerc]

Did I mention my son is named Luke and daughter Leia?

Not that I know. Thanks for the information :-). Movienames for real life people can be awkward, but Luke and Leia are definately great. Beautiful name for a girl!

The crazy thing is I bought an IC in Persia with UK on turn 2 because I thought his Sealion was a joke or fake.

Uuuuhhh, playing with fire, that is! And too bad its machines aren’t humming, driving the assembly lines to crank out mechanized forces. If I buy an IC in the region it is to be better equipped against a Japanese approach and/or to help Russia contesting Caucasus + Stalingrad. So UK5 or UK6 is still valid. The danger with any ICs there is of course  that Japan rids the UK of it, but that almost certainly means that the USA has an opening in the PAC (no small investment for Japan to drive the UK beyond persia).

Never had so much fun playing Russia

Yeah I really love to play Russia and attack Germany if it goes SL. Or see the look on his face if he can’t get into Moscow after he launched Barbarossa. Of course, my German opponent will love the look on my face if I lost Moscow after failing to persuade my UK ‘friend’ to send me some 8 Spitfires ;-).