Is this version a recognition of some kind that those 20 Soviet units in the Far East are too much?
Most already came home in 1942.
Does the Russo-Japan, Mongolian thing apply to the 42 setup as well?
1942 setup starts with Russia and Japan at war. However the rule remains untrggered.
@Global:
…if Japan attacks any Soviet-controlled territory that is adjacent to any Mongolian territory, all Mongolian territories that are still strict neutral or pro-Allies… are placed under the control of the Soviet Union at the end of Japan’s Conduct Combat phase… This occurs regardless of the state of relations between the Soviet Union and Japan at the time of the attack, with one exception: If the Soviet Union attacks Korea or any Japan-controlled territory bordering these Mongolian territories while Mongolia is still a strict neutral…
The Mongolian Rule was unclear to us. In both games we played that Soviet’s could enter China and participate in defensive battles since they are at war with Japan. However, if they attacked the Japanese first or invaded a Japanese territory then the Mongolians would never mobilize.
Any other views on this?
The Russo-Japan rules are the same as 2nd edition. As you first quoted. It is not a simple “who attacks first” question. It’s WHERE they attack.
If Russia attacks Manchuria, Korea, or Kansu-Suiyuyan-Char Char-Jehol (if the Japanese have conquered them and not attacked Russia on a Tibet-bordering TT) FIRST, they do not get Tibet.
HOWEVER, Russia CAN send units into China, as that is not attacking Japan. They can attack Japan within China EXCEPT for the Tibet bordering territories listed above.
If Japan attacks Amur or Timguska (meaning they went through all of China first before attacking) FIRST, then Russia DOES get Tibet.
HOWEVER, Japan can attack Novosibirsk, Kazakhstan, (and any territory West) amphib Siberia & Soviet Far East without triggering Tibet becoming Russian.
In sum: ask “Does it touch Tibet?” If Yes: The first attacker will trigger the rule, convert to Russian during NCM if you are Japan, make it true neutral if you are Russian
You mean Mongolia, not Tibet.
I’ve played the scenario twice now, with both being Allied victories. Â The Axis have a tough road ahead.
It takes too long for Germany to rebound on the easter front. Â Egypt is well protected from round 1, and the US doesn’t have to spend much in the Atlantic to make a difference.
I’d be up for a friendly game on the forums if anyone is interested. Â PM me.
Whackamatt, thank you for your contribution. Your interpretation of the rule seems spot on to me.
We’ve completed 5 games of '42 with only 1 axis victory against a bid for allies.
We also thought the axis were disadvantaged and changed to a bid for the axis.
Axis won soundly with a large bid of 22. We plan to try a bid for the axis in the range of 10-12 next time we play.
Having learned from two prior losses, i plan on trying again as the Axis to see what can be done before claiming a bid is necessary.
Summary from my games.
Game 1 – Allies win Round 13 (Axis concession)
GERMANY
Their foray into Africa was short-lived, as they did not buy a factory for Southern France or Greece. Instead, a Romanian factory was purchased to facilitate the eastern front.
As the Eastern front collapses for the first several turns, Ger didn’t buy any navy, trying everything they could to stop an aggressive Russian opening. From that, the UK easily placed an Egypt factory round 1, placing infantry every turn while building up a sizeable navy.
By Round 6, the on again off again sporadic landing of Normandy began, starting the constant drain of resources. Russia switched to a mostly inf buying strategy, and wore down Germany, who was not able to take the Ukraine.
ITALY
With an income of less than 20 for the first 6 rounds, it was impossible for them to scratch Egypt, who was adding 3 Inf per turn from 2 onward. The UK amassed a greater navy that eventually crushed the Italian fleet and took Southern Italy by Round 9. They couldn’t do much. Italy was liberated by Germany, but the resource drain was too much for both Axis powers.
JAPAN
Having never played G42 before, they tried a few things.
J1 they took out the Solomon Islands fleet and all ANZAC naval units.
They then purchased factories for FIC and Malaya, and with a steady stream of Inf/Tanks, took India on Round 7.
However, the US was spending a good 90% against Japan. On the same round that India fell, the US took Korea, liberated Manchuria, then bought its own factory and convoyed Japan into oblivion.
ANZAC, with its paltry ICs, still managed to save and drop TTs and subs, then time it’s attacks just so to prevent Japan from getting the DEI bonus for most of the game.
INDIA was also aggressive with its navy liberating Borneo and Sumatra. It may have hastened the downfall of India, but whittled the Jap fleet down enough that Japan had to retreat from the US navy for most of the game.
By the start of Round 13 in Europe:
The UK has a factory in Norway, the US has 8 loaded transports in Morocco, there is no Italian fleet, and Germany is not threatening Russia.
In the Pacific:
The US has TWO factories, one in Korea, and one in Kwangtung (because India fell and then the US took it). Japan has no fleet, only one of the DEI, no territories in China, and is about to get convoyed by 7+ subs.
THINGS FOR ME TO FIGURE OUT
1) How does Germany effectively mount a counter-assault in the East? They’re on the defensive for the first couple of turns while slow-moving units trundle east.
2) How does Germany do #1 while fending off a UK navy? The UK starts with two DDs that can’t be reached, and the two starting German subs in 107 will most likely be killed by the US before they get to move. Germany doesn’t have the large income boost they see in 40 from taking France, so it’s tough to ward of Russia AND build a navy.
3) How does Germany and Italy put ANY kind of pressure on Egypt? Germany starts with 1 TT and NO med factories. Italy starts with 1 TT, which isn’t enough to threaten Egypt.
4) How does Japan eliminate the Indian fleet while holding off the US? The Indian fleet is backed by an airbase, the java fleet is not. And there are no units that can reinforce it immediately.
5) How can they complete the DEI and keep them? They start with only 2 TTs which are both 2 turns away from Celebes.
6) How does Japan take Calcutta if the UK is free to reinforce them through a non-threatened Egypt?
What I dislike about any 42 scenario is that, while more historically accurate, takes away many of the choices to be made in a 40 scenario. How did units get there?!? I have how many units in New Britain?
I will try different tactics to see if anything seems to work. The entire game felt like “How am I supposed to win this?†as the Axis.
Good reading guys.
I too have played a game as the Axis and have stood no chance since it began. We are now on T5 and I am behind by 70 income.
Italy has never collected more than 10 and I cannot see how they would ever get a bonus.
Germany losing those two Subs and having to fight for its life from G1 makes for a fun game, but smacks more of a 1943 scenario than 1942.
We will play again, because the options and plays make for a different game from 1940.
I would like to know how the Axis won that game out of five that you played Siparo.
I went back and looked at some old saves from last month. I can’t remember with certainty that this is all correct, because I didn’t save the end of the game file. But I believe the Germans retreated and then pushed the Russians back to the 1940 starting borders and successfully invaded UK in turn 4 or 5. The US and Japan were stalemated in the Pacific and US forces in Europe were stranded in Gibraltor. Italy had taken Egypt and the factory there.
After the fall of UK the allies capitulated.
ImperialDefence, please correct me if I’ve got this wrong.
Thank you. I think you said it was a Sealion in an earlier post. I am sorry I forgot.
I am not sure, however, I would dare save up and buy Transports to the detriment of the Eastern Front. The thought of all those Communists inside my borders, sends shivers down my spine!
Too many years of starving Russia of income is hard to change, especially now they get a NO for original Axis territory.
My plan had been to hold with Europe and win with Japan, but my Japanese play is not that good and I probably fell foul of my indecision and inexperience there.
It is interesting seeing the different perspectives on this setup.
So far in my play group, we have found that Japan is seriously OP, and can easily choose to sack both Hawaii and Solomon on J1, leaving poor little india zero chance of living long with a single minor fac in FIC cranking out fast, and maybe a couple trannies coming down from a J1 purchase…
Our consensus at this point is that USA needs a ten bid ftr on Hawaii to have much chance of stopping a J juggernaut. An all ground push on India coupled with a huge naval stonewall of USA fleet rebuild efforts has left poor little anzac an easy target, and a Pac win a likely outcome.
What are you guys seeing differently about how monster J gets in the first 2-4 rounds, and how are you stopping it?
So ar, I like 42 a bunch, it feels much more like Revised plays with all the forced and expected turn 1 big trading that MUST happen, I just dont see the Pacific as being very well balanced currently.
Based on the old save I was looking at Russia didn’t have too many units to strike with as they were mostly in Leningrad and Ukraine. The 6 transports were purchased and enough troops held back from eastern front to use. UK had spent all of the past few buys on Africa. So, the fall of Britain really could have been prevented.
I can see how Japan could get strong and I went all for India after getting DEI bonus, but my best friend is very good and stymied me. UK having an IC in Egypt and coming East helped. Italy cannot get above 10 IPCs.
Maybe a second game I would be better.
See, in our games, Italy has little trouble reaching the high teens, although going higher is very tough. � Clearing the med for the bonus is far easier than in 1940 for several reasons. � First being that Italy has a lot more air, and second being that there are a lot less boats around at the start for UK. � I’ve found Italy earning 16 on I1 most of the time.
Another factor that likely influences this is that the most common G1 move for us so far has been to buy the carrier, and kill sz 119. � This makes any potential sz 91 moves very tough for the allies turns 1 and 2, giving Italy a little bit of time to get its legs under it.
I agree that Egypt falling is very tough for Italy to pull off, however other than ftrs, I dont see any units built in Egypt having time to reach India to make a difference. A Perisa factory OTOH, is a different story, and likely very necessary to keep India alive.
The Axis should not win unless you really out maneuver the allies. By 1942, the axis were really in a bad spot since they had not made enough gains before the US onslaught came. If you want a historically accurate game, meaning not having to play it the way the war really went, but being to make your own decisions with the conditions that existed in 1942, and want a balanced game, 1942 is not the year to start.
I would love to see a 1939 game, but I wonder if that would be too long. The 1940 2nd edition in my opinion is where you should stay. I know there is a 1941 game but have not played it.
