Montreal Axis & Allies Club Shirts

[Raymond Biesinger]

Hi all,

we played AA50 on Sunday and I’ve had the game on my mind a little too much since then. So, Monday night I put in some extra hours (I’m an illustrator by trade) and made this thing.

I’m not quite sure if it’s finished or if my playing group’s going to want them made, but on it you can see a German MP-40 submachine gun, the UK, USA, USSR, Chinese, Japanese, German, Italian and Hungarian flags, and that flower-y thing in the medal is Ville de Montreal’s civic logo. I’m not entirely sold on including the Chinese and Hungarian flags, but I saw some places on the gun for extra belligerents and thought I’d go for it.

I felt bad about how abstract the Chinese flag and the MP-40 are, but when you’re working with such a thick and uniform lineweight only so much detail can be included. Also, I need to feel out how comfortable my guys are with wearing swastikas (however small) and decide whether to stick with them or replace them with an iron cross.

Anyone else make anything like this for their players? I’m curious. If so, this might be a good place to post them.

OK. Keep good. May all your rolls be ones.

Yrs.,
R.

[CWO Marc]

I suspect that Montreal’s new Mayor, Michael Applebaum, the first Jewish person to hold that office, would be highly offended to see the Nazi swastika on the same t-shirt as the City of Montreal logo.  The Balkenkreuz would be a better choice politically – and it would even provide a nice (albeit vague) connection to Place Ville Marie and the cross on Mont-Royal.

[Raymond Biesinger]

@CWO:

I suspect that Montreal’s new Mayor, Michael Applebaum, the first Jewish person to hold that office, would be highly offended to see the Nazi swastika on the same t-shirt as the City of Montreal logo.  The Balkenkreuz would be a better choice politically – and it would even provide a nice (albeit vague) connection to Place Ville Marie and the cross on Mont-Royal.

I suspect you’re right. I’m now leaning in that direction, too. Now with 100% less swastika.

Yrs.,
R.

[CWO Marc]

I have a question.  The horizontal part of the design is clearly a submachine gun, but I’m wondering about the other major component, the vertical one shaped like the letter P.  Could you clarify what this represents?

[Raymond Biesinger]

It’s a skull and jaw, chomping on the machine gun.  :-)

Yrs.,
R.

[CWO Marc]

@Raymond:

It’s a skull and jaw, chomping on the machine gun.Â

Ah.  I wasn’t able to identify it – possibly because of the asymmetrical (one-eyed) design.  On the other hand, if I could venture a suggestion, I’d advise against making the skull more recognizable because that might make it look like an SS Totenkopf, which like the swastika would not be a desirable thing to put on the same t-shirt as the City of Montreal logo.

[dedo]

If you wore this shirt in Germany, you could be arrested. Not only the swastikas are forbidden but also the Sig-Runes.

[Raymond Biesinger]

Interesting. Do A&A games have different German roundels in Germany, then?

And I’ll keep the skull. It’s been a symbol of death and war forever.

Yrs.,
R.

[sgtwiltan]

Political correctness is a fact of life nowadays.
Good design but at least you removed the swastika.
The SS and the swastika however are a fact of WW2 as is the Japanese meatball
who my grandfather fought against. History is written by the victors so should we
censor all the realities of the war? West Germany and Japan contributed to the only
War I was involved in and their contribution did not include any troops. Germany
provided Motor T assets of which my unit benefited in the form of an extra German version of
our 5 Ton. The Japanese didn’t even go that far and only provided VCRs, Radios and other
electronic forms of entertainment. Those 2 countries are harsh about their parts in WW2 and
are making sure they do not turn to the path that destroyed their countries in that war.
Some people may get offended by your logos but barring the swastika, I think your design is
harmless enough in context. If you do not wish to have any controversy, leave out the offending
symbols. My family lost members to Japanese atrocities in WW2 but today I work with Japanese
colleagues regularly and am a black belt in a japanese martial art. I even brought a half Japanese
girl to my senior prom even though I knew my grandfather would have disowned me for doing so.
Too bad the game has all those links to what happened in WW2 but A&A IS A GAME about that war!!
Ignorance about the symbols of the war is as bad as Nazi propaganda and the burning of books to me
since I would rather have the truth, no matter how ugly be truly represented rather than swept under
the rug like it never happened. We were the victors that brought down Hitler, Tojo, and Mussolini so we have the
right to take their symbols as war trophies instead of glorifying them as some groups do nowadays.

[dedo]

Interesting. Do A&A games have different German roundels in Germany, then?

They are not allowed to use swastikas, the rondels in the german version are made of a red background and the Balkenkreuz. Unfortunately, there exists no correct translation of “Balkenkreuz”, so it is often misquoted as “iron cross”. “Balkenkreuz” may be translated as a bar cross or beam cross

[sgtwiltan]

It’s the same as the American version.
It’s the national recognition symbol painted on tanks and on wings of german aircraft in WW2.
It’s what RB has on the shirt on the second version.

[lozmoid]

I like it!

[Gargantua]

Great shirt! But - please send me a version of the shirt with the rune stones etc.

I want people to be offended by the history of man-kind’s ugliness, instead of sugar coating everything all the time.  Otherwise how are people supposed to learn!?!?!

This is ink on canvas, it’s not about what everyone else thinks - but about what YOU think.

Where’s the social pressure from some of you to remove the Hammer and Sickle?  That’s also offensive.  Or what about the American flag?  Many Montrealer’s find THAT outrageously offensive.  Just go to a Habs game!

Don’t any of you understand, that it was this kind of restrictionism, and pandering to the lowest common denominator, that led to totalitarianism and the war in the first place?

To those of you who oppose the original design - take my point well Hypocrites.

[Raymond Biesinger]

Thanks for the kind words, Garg. Unfortunately, it’s only for people who play a game with our club on our turf. Visitors included, though, so if you give Westjet $900 of your hard-earned cash for a flight you can still make it happen.

OK. Here’s what I think is the final. The Swastika’s staying off–whatever the politics, it was a request from one of our members, too, and I’ve got more important things to debate. I’ve adjusted some other things. The Soviet flag now has its star, and the Chinese flag is now a mixed Nationalist over Communist one. For aesthetic reasons I added some “shading” to the Italian flag (even though it took the form of stripes), more details on the Hungarian crest, and added the sunburst on the Imperial Japanese.

This thing is very close. Something about the trigger is bothering me. Going to take a trip to the local tee shirt press shop in the next few days to make a prototype. Can’t wait. Next game is Saturday, and I’d like to be able to take orders from the guys.

Yrs.,
R.

[Gargantua]

Might work better if you put a Beret on the skull, Like my avatar.

OR, if the Skull isn’t lopsided - if you even out the curvature.

I would also dice both eyes, maybe one inverted though, black die with white pips, white die with black pips.

Also, I would still offset the Japanese star/sunburst.

Maybe use the skull crack (double it) as eyebrows.  With the stamp on the forehead of the evened out skull.

[Gargantua]

Could also change the line color of the gun OR the Skull, to distinguish the too, or try a black shirt with red linings.

[Raymond Biesinger]

Ha! Sounds like you should make your own Montreal A&A Club shirt. Also, because we’re going to do each shirt as a one-off print-on-demand thing each member can chose their own colour of shirt and image.

Yrs.,
R.

[Raymond Biesinger]

And there we go, with a bit of pomp and ceremony…

Yrs.,
R.

[Gargantua]

The red fez offends me.

Seriously.

[Raymond Biesinger]

Ha! Tell that to the guy in Istanbul who sold it to me.

Yrs.,
R.