Assuming following USA income:
Assuming 4 starting fighters , 2 bombers, carrier, 2DD and atlantic tansport lived.
The strat:
1st round, no build. All cash kept. We don’t want to show our hand to Japan right now. Surviving sea, air and land units start moving toward Pacific and West Coast IC.
2nd round, 88 IPC in hands.
BUY: 4 carriers, 2 transports, 1 artillery, 1 fighter. (2 ipc in hand, making 50ipc next round ).
At the end of second round, the following result should be:
3rd round, 50 IPC in hands: The taking of caroline Islands.
BUY: 5 fighters
4th round, 48 ipc in hands: Mc Arthur returns to Phillipines
BUY: Up to you, I’d say more fighters for further reinforcement. You will need them.
5th round: 55 ipc
Build an IC on phillipines, 3 bombers.
Land 4 fighters/ 2bombers as 4 new ones fly in from WUS. Start bombing japan ICs to Dust.
Note: On round 3, you are in range of many important assets. That IC should pump new ships, it’s one of the rare instance where a BBs comes to mind. If Phillipine cannot be secured, you might have a good shot at a Frindo IC and placing a solid foot for USA in Asia. There is also Borneo and Sumatra. It’s up to you to separate or not the 3 transports.
Also, I did not spoke of what can UK and Russia do to support this strat. Don’t count them out even if they mainly concentrate on Europe, especially if an India IC exist and a Buratya stack was agressive early ( backed by a caucasus bomber ).
I would have to play this out but I am concerned about the movement to the Caroline island. From there japan can hit you with nearly every ship they have.
The block DD would have to move out on Round 2 to get to sz60 on Round 3, but I suppose this might be doable.
Sounds interesting.
One thought, what do you do if Japan takes away your Pacific NO on J2 since he saw that you had little fleet in the water?
Sounds interesting.
One thought, what do you do if Japan takes away your Pacific NO on J2 since he saw that you had little fleet in the water?
This is a good question. A lot of times on J1, Japan positions itself to take Aus and can take Sol and Wake (or HI) if there is no significant US presence.
As for moving to Car on US 3,worst case for Japan, you’ll probably see their fleet take a defensive posture at Car on J3, forcing the US to attack the J fleet. A dd or 2, 5 ac, and 5 ftrs isn’t enough to sink a modest J fleet of CA, BB, 2 AC, 4 ftrs. US may win but J, seeing the US placement on US 2, will buy some navy/air on J3 and will be able to counter any surving US ships on J4.
I guess there are 2 main things that come to mind reading this…
Saving income for a turn is unlikely to fool a good player. It’s unlikely you are saving that income to drop a USA2 fleet in sz10, so Japan has to assume USA is coming after them, and buy a few planes and destroyers to prepare.
I’d say swap at least 1 loaded AC for 3 destroyers. USA needs those destroyers as fodder and blockers and it also needs them in case Japan buys a bunch of submarines.
A Pacific offensive seems very tough to pull off in 41 against a skilled Japanese. If I was going to do it, though, I’d favor a more aggressive tactic to destroy the Japanese fleet first…using subs and air power for the most part.
Bardoly, you have 2 bombers and 4 fighters in range of midway and hawai.
If Wake and Solomon were taken, you can always retake Solomon instead of Caroline. You’d still be in range to Phillipine/Borneo/Sumatra trough sea zone 46(Solomons).
In all cases, the 2 IJN transports that were used to take thoses islands should be dead meat.
DathMaximus, you forgot the 2 US bombers.
Also, the fleet you described is not modest since what you described is the whole starting IJN minus one AC that is probably busy in Indian ocean. Japan normally lose 2 fighters out of 9 in initial turns, so 4 out of 7 fighters are sitting there.
Then by all means USA should attack it with everything. You don’t get many chances like this in a game to waste the whole Japanese fleet. 5 fighters, 5 AC, 2 bombers, 2dds VS CA, BB, 2 AC, 4 ftrs should win. I am assuming the Australian DD is still lurking somewhere too to reinforce the US fleet after battle. Victory also means the Island is taken and Japan fighters cannot land on it and an air attack is impossible unless assisted by more AC . The US 3rd turn buy will of course be planned ahead to replace losses and should be adequate in relation to the upcoming carolines battle/trade .
Yes Japan could try to retaliate and set up a ‘‘trade’’ but Japanese income on J1-J3 is’nt that great, a J3 buy with around 40 ipc could try to send a counter force on J4.
But that doesn’t sound too promising and will stall Asia operations. Japan would need to commit all remaining fighters and 2 more AC that will be sunk on USA 4th turn.
That trade could go on but I suspect USA would get the upper hand pretty fast since Japan must deal with Asia. Worst case, it become more and more easy to slip past a token force trough sea zone 46 to retake Borneo/Sumatra and why not Phillipine. Hell, the australian transport could do that by itself at that point. I don’t sea India falling, I don’t see any pression on Russia either in this scenario. It’s not the ideal but I’d certainly would not complain of such a turn of events since I’m keen on an Indian IC.
Right, forgot about the bombers.
Japan obviously doesn’t have to move its fleet if the odds are terrible. My concern is saving large amounts of money. I’ve found its usually better to get units on the board earlier rather than later.
Now if you are going for surprise, then that would probably rule out a Bury stack/Cauc bom + Ind IC, b/c that right there should get Japan’s warning flags up. Even with a Bury stack alone or a Cauc bom, Japan should raise a flag.
If you don’t intend Bury stack and maybe stack in Stc instead you might be able to pull Japan in a little bit, but they still will probably buy some ships on J2 (regardless if US saves cash) b/c they have to go after the islands and may not want to leave anything in Sz 62 so they just buy some protection.
I’m thinking if you go this route, you forget surprise and go Bury stack + UK IC on Ind (if you can hold on J2) and on US 1 go 2 AC, 1 ftr (save 2). US 2 - 1 trn, 1 ftr, 4 dd. You’d have a fleet of 5 dd, 3 ac, 6 ftrs with 2 boms and maybe 2 trns (if you brought over the Atl trn). And UK DD for an extra hit. With boms you’ll have 39 in offensive punch and 42 in defense including the UK DD. With 5 AC, 5 ftrs, 1 dd you only have 30 in Off (with boms) and 32 in Def.
Again, I’m not really against the tactic as much as I am against saving the cash.
I think if you want to go after Japan you see how G1 goes, if somewhat favorable then maybe Russia can add help, then once J goes you commit from US 1 or you don’t. Also buying US AC/ftrs on US 1 forces Japan to protect Sz 62 pretty heavy, considering you can bring ~4-5 ftrs, 2 boms. They could counter with a ship buy but that could free up the Indian IC or save Aus for another turn or two.
To me I think if you go after Japan, you go after them early and you commit to it, I don’t know if you can “trick them” but you can overwhelm them target wise which could create and opening.
What you say sound good. I guess it’s a question of style.
Myself I keep far away from DDs and CAs, I prefer ACs as the fighters are easier to replace on sea ( can also be shard with allies ) and offer better power projection.
You have to consider that on turn 4, you’ll have 10 fighters in the phillipine sz while it’s a long journey from WUS for any pack of dd’s ( 4 move for fighters and 2 for dds. ) You won’t be able to swap fighters either to reinforce the IC on land and/or any new 2 AC buy from it.
But YES. We might be able to improve that 3rd turn I suppose, as long as overall turn 4 does not suffer too much ( You must hold phillipine sea zone on 4th). However, something about buying DDs as canon fodder does not suits me well. If we want to get 42 defense on turn 3, might as well go with 3 BB / 1AC / 2 transports. Add the starting 2 dds, 1tr, 1AC, 4 fighters plus UK DD/TR and you end up with:
3BBs / 2 ACs / 3dds / 4 fighters / 3+1 transports ( 42 defense + 3 soak/bombard )
Hey, I like it I think :P It’s one of thoses rare instances where a battleship soak/bombard can be of use ( Still a big NO on Cruisers for me ) since we have many here. Might even be able to strafe the IJN :) What do you think?
To take Caroline and place ur fleet in sz 51 in US3 cant work.
At that moment u need to block sz 60 and sz52 and defend against at least 10 fg. If succeded J kills sz 52+60 and moves to phil with at least 5 AC + 10 fg - it is J4 v a US pacific campaign!
I think this strategy is alrgiht as it is but when you go with a India IC as brittish and say forget the suprise and buy your boats first turn it works better. DarthMaximus has it right in my opinion. I understand the need for the mass fighter swap as you have it Corbeau Blanc but if you get attacked by subs because thats how i would go as Japs if i only see one destroyer it doesn’t matter how many planes you have if there is no carriers alive and the japs subs will set you back 2-3rounds. your block destroyer dies while you are at the carolines and if they go heavy subs you have to take boats as causulties when you make your philippines run. and if you don’t get the japs islands on you’re first run japan will still have enough IPC’s for the land battle against India and Russia can only fight Germany and Itlay for so long until they are overwhelmed.
I think that 3 carriers with 6 fighters along with the DD’s is enough to take the philipines get a complex there and start building better boats than the japs because you have more money you can still get your 5 carriers by that point.
I think the only flaw is trying the suprise build, just putting boats in the water stops the Jap land builds and stops the japs from taking your NO’s in the begining.
I Like this plan alot though because the Japs usually split their Navy to go South this plan destroys the monster Japan that we all hate as the Allies.
Really. People think that the Japanese are unstoppable. That’s because the Japanese are held to the age-old tradition of dividing and conquering. The only thing is, the Allies can turn around and divide the Japanese about twice as quickly should they have the mind to.
An 8 IPC bid is optimal for this. 1 inf + 1 arm in Egy. (the more, the better, but 8 is average, right?)
Combine a defensive R1 turn w/ Cau bomber with a R2 3inf to Ind + 7inf Man stack push and you have a strong Russian counter to two fields.
Add to that a B1 Ind IC + 2 arm/1 fig Egy to Ind, and an aggressive Aus DD.
America goes 100% Pacific with both bombers and a 1 BB, 1 CV, 1 SS buy US1, consolidating American fleet in SZ56 with bombers in Haw, or WUS if not safe.
Summary:
Ind defended with 6 inf 1 art 1 fig 1 AA
Potential counterattack: 2 inf 2 arm Gbr (+ 1 bom if thought necessary) on B2
Potential counterattack: #inf #arm 1bom Rus on R3 (arm buy on R2 to account for defensive 1st turn should have 4arm in Cau, inf moved on R2 if deemed necessary)
Man taken 7inf
1 BB 2 CV 1 DD 4 fig 1 SS SZ56 US1 + 2 bom (26 att)
1 Jap TP off SZ38 sunk
Face it. Japan has previously been able to take everything by J3 simply by using their massive air force to spread across the board. If forced to use it defensively, or with no inf to soak any hits, their potential is greatly reduced. These methods are extreme, and neglect Ger, but Japan will never get the chance to grow and you will see America making 60 IPC, with Great Britain making 50 IPC and Japan making 8 IPC by US4 if lucky, US6 if unlucky. Japan has 17 IPC turn 1. 30-40 turn 2. It goes down after that. America has 40 IPC turn 1. 48-50 turn 2. It goes up after that. Britain has 43 IPC turn 1. 30-40 turn 2. It goes up after that.
Germany can do as she likes. She won’t take a skilled Russian player, with a British approach of 2inf+1art in Ind each turn. I mean, Ind+Bur+Bor+Sum+Ngu+Per=15 IPC. 3 turns of owning these and the place will have paid for itself and the costs of maintaining it
(10 IPC/turn). It won’t fall, because Japan’s reach can’t make it with America pulling on her other arm and Russia biting her toes.
Japan is a mother. Incredibly efficient if left to her tasks, ready to break down when the kids become terrors.
Really. People think that the Japanese are unstoppable.
……
Japan is a mother. Incredibly efficient if left to her tasks, ready to break down when the kids become terrors.
Thanks for the memorable quotes :mrgreen:
I had this strat used on me before I had ever heard of it. I proved fatal for the allies. As Japan I use a VERY offensive towards the US strat. If the British player is going to continue to spend some money in India then it helps my European axis. Also being extremely aggressive against the US player allows me to occasionally scare them out of the pacific giving up all those bonus. When I say aggressive I am talking about taking HI on J2 with nearly the entire imperial navy. I also knock out the US island bonus on J2 as well. I wont go into detail on the Japanese strat unless someone wants but I found it to be fatal to the allies when they attempted this strategy against my aggressive play.
The problem I see in this whole strategy is that USA does not need to focus on building a vast navy that is comparable to Japan. They need to concentrate on Europe (hint hint: that was how history played out; Europe falling first then Asia.) USA is much more effective if they concentrate a majority of their forces on Germany and Italy. That is where the game is won and lost.
The problem I see in this whole strategy is that USA does not need to focus on building a vast navy that is comparable to Japan. They need to concentrate on Europe (hint hint: that was how history played out; Europe falling first then Asia.) USA is much more effective if they concentrate a majority of their forces on Germany and Italy. That is where the game is won and lost.
Many players share your view about KGF, but I believe this post is about a possible OTHER allied strategy.
I suggest that you take a look at some of the games that Yoshi plays against top players in the '41 league. He basically abandons Europe with the US. It is killer! :-o
I suggest that you take a look at some of the games that Yoshi plays against top players in the '41 league. He basically abandons Europe with the US. It is killer! :-o
Could you please elaborate? I’m not sure how to “take a look at these games” :)
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=19251.0
Here’s a link to his most recent game that is still in progress (so please don’t discuss any future moves about this particular game), if you look for his name on other game threads in the tournament section. You can read the moves on the forum but you should open the ABattleMap files to look at the actual game board progress.
I also played a US Pacific strategy against Zhukov in my last tournament game, which was also going well, but I made a mistake with the Soviets and let the Germans run rampant. :| So if you want to “check out” a US Pacific Allied strategy that almost worked, you can see it here:
