By rules China can only go into territories that have the Chinese national symbols with the exception of Kwangtung and Burma. I understand the restrictions but don’t understand why they were not also allowed to advance into Korea (Japanese originally owned). Why not make an exception for the Korean territory like Kwangtung and Burma. If the Chinese were kicking Japans butt they would have to just stop at the Korean border and wait for another ally to finish. I know this is minor and not very important to the game play, I’m just curious. Can someone explain the reasoning, thanx……………
Chinese forces are not allowed outside China to reflect the fact that they were more interested in pursuing their own civil war than dealing with anything else other than a direct threat from Japan. Kwangtung is an exception because it’s inside China’s borders. Burma is an exception because of China’s interest in keeping Western aid flowing in on the Burma Road. China simply wasn’t interested in “kicking Japan’s butt” past getting them out of China.
well krieg, you pretty much smacked the ball out of the park with that one.
Kevin, I think you are ruining the game with this kind of funny Cina-rules.
I think China should work under the same rules as the others. China did in fact combat-move into Korea in 27 june 1950, and Tibet too shortly after. Just because it didn’t happen in 1945 you tell me we cant let it happen in the game ? So how do you explain why the Japanese Navy moved into the Mediterean Sea in my last game, because that did not happen in WWII, or why Japan in many games occupie half of Africa, because that too never happened in the real war, and how can Germany occupie half of Africa in a lot of games, since in the real war Germany did not have any interests in Africa ?
etc etc
Kevin, I think you are ruining the game with this kind of funny Cina-rules.
I think China should work under the same rules as the others. China did in fact combat-move into Korea in 27 june 1950, and Tibet too shortly after. Just because it didn’t happen in 1945 you tell me we cant let it happen in the game ? So how do you explain why the Japanese Navy moved into the Mediterean Sea in my last game, because that did not happen in WWII, or why Japan in many games occupie half of Africa, because that too never happened in the real war, and how can Germany occupie half of Africa in a lot of games, since in the real war Germany did not have any interests in Africa ?
etc etc
Because there’s a difference between “we have bigger issues on the homefront than dealing with the Japanese” and “we could gain money there, but the primary objective of this war is elsewhere”
Because there’s a difference between “we have bigger issues on the homefront than dealing with the Japanese” and “we could gain money there, but the primary objective of this war is elsewhere”
So why, in your opinion, did not UK say “We have bigger issues on the homefront (Sealion threat) than dealing with Italians in Africa, Germans in Europe and Japanes in Asia” ?
Or why did not US say “We have bigger issues on the homefront (New Deal gone wrong) than dealing with Japanese in Pacific or Germans in Europe” ?
Or just why could the Chines not say " Hey man, we could gain money if we occupied Korea, and with this extra money solve the issues we got on the homefront" ?
Just curiuss more than anything, kdfsjljklgjfg.
Because there’s a difference between “we have bigger issues on the homefront than dealing with the Japanese” and “we could gain money there, but the primary objective of this war is elsewhere”
So why, in your opinion, did not UK say “We have bigger issues on the homefront (Sealion threat) than dealing with Italians in Africa, Germans in Europe and Japanes in Asia” ?
Or why did not US say “We have bigger issues on the homefront (New Deal gone wrong) than dealing with Japanese in Pacific or Germans in Europe” ?Or just why could the Chines not say " Hey man, we could gain money if we occupied Korea, and with this extra money solve the issues we got on the homefront" ?
Just curiuss more than anything, kdfsjljklgjfg.
UK: Sealion would’ve required complete control of the English Channel by the Germans to really have any chance. That didn’t really happen at all, so Sealion wasn’t really a near future threat at all at any point in the war. As for africa and asia, the loss of their African colonies would’ve cut off a lot of the British oil supply and would’ve badly hurt the war effort, in addition to giving a major boost to the axis in seizing said oil. As for Asia, India and the Pacific islands were also a massive source of income, India being considered the UK’s most important colony, the loss of which would’ve been devastating. As for the Germans in Europe, well, if they’re busy defending a British attack, then they won’t exactly be planning an invasion of Britain when they’re trying to keep the rest of Western Europe under their control from the British.
US: Are you really asking me why I think the US went to war with Japan after they got attacked on their own soil? That should be kinda obvious. Germany declared war as a result of that, and it was agreed between the allies that a “Germany first” policy would go into effect.
China: It’s way easier to conduct a defensive war than an aggressive one, and if they overextended their forces against the far more powerful Japanese, it could’ve been a very quick war.
Kevin, I think you are ruining the game with this kind of funny Cina-rules.
That’s your opinion, and you’re entitled to have it, just as I’m entitled to disagree.
I think China should work under the same rules as the others. China did in fact combat-move into Korea in 27 june 1950, and Tibet too shortly after. Just because it didn’t happen in 1945 you tell me we cant let it happen in the game ? So how do you explain why the Japanese Navy moved into the Mediterean Sea in my last game, because that did not happen in WWII, or why Japan in many games occupie half of Africa, because that too never happened in the real war, and how can Germany occupie half of Africa in a lot of games, since in the real war Germany did not have any interests in Africa ?
Why should China work under the same rules as other powers, when it was not in the same situation as other powers? China was not an industrialized nation like the other powers. The other powers were not in the midst of a full-blown civil war, as China was. I agree that the game should not be scripted to follow history exactly. There should be room for what-ifs. However, it also should not include elements that are complete fantasy. There was no way that the Nationalist and Communist factions fighting in China at that time were going to put aside their differences to embark on a campaign of territorial expansion or a punitive expedition against Japan outside of China. They worked together only insofar as it was necessary to expel a foreign invader, then went back to killing each other. This was simply the political reality of China at that time.
Larry chose to reflect this reality by making a couple of simple special rules for China. China is limited in its production capacity in order to reflect its non-industrialized state, and it is limited in its territorial movement range in order to relect the military impediments created by its on-going civil war. These are simple but effective rules. They reflect the political and economic realities of China within the timeframe of the game without bogging it down in a lot of complexity. Personally, I think it’s an elegant solution.
As to what happened in 1950, how is that relevant? The civil war had been concluded, and the national situation of China was radically different. You may as well allow for the development of nuclear submarines, ICBMs and space warfare as allow for these events.
So when are space rules coming out? If there is one thing cooler then Nazi’s it’s Nazi’s in space!
The largest point, in all reality is….where could china even go if it was allowed to combat move out of china.
Korea, French Indochina, Siam, Shan State, India, Malaya.
China already has its hands full with its 12 starting territories, and 6 more japanese controled territories.
All the territories excluding korea, should fall under the umbrella of what the UK should be protecting.
There arent very many territories outside of china that china could even dream of attacking (unless they are empty) with its infantry and single fighter.
The current china rules are the best yet, and I dont expect them to get better, and I dont think they need to get better.
There arent very many territories outside of china that china could even dream of attacking (unless they are empty) with its infantry and single fighter.
Erm - China can build a lot of artillery if the Burma road is open, which it is, when Japan trys a KUSAF strat :-D
If Japan does a KUSAF strategy, Chinese artillery is the least of its worries.
The current china rules are the best yet, and I dont expect them to get better, and I dont think they need to get better.
I agree that they are the best yet. But I would like them to take a step further. I’m envisioning in the global game. Say Japan falls early, but Germany is a powerhouse. It would not be realistic or fair for China to just build up its military inside it borders with its 29 possible ipcs until Germany reaches it. This would make invasion immposible, which might keep Germany from winning. If China was in a revolution during the time, once the Japanese are gone, there is no reason for them to fight anymore or build up. I think that they should be able to move their units, but have huge restrictions on how many units they have (like no more than the 10 or so they started with and maybe a few artillery with all extra units having to disband). Thoughts?
I think it’s every bit as unrealistic to expect any kind of Chinese action against Germany. If Japan is out of the game, you should probably assume China goes back to resolving its own civil war.
Excellent, we are of the same mind. This of course would only be until Germany attacks it (like a separate declaration of war). Then China should be able to fight Germany just as it did against Japan with the same restrictions.
Why should China work under the same rules as other powers, when it was not in the same situation as other powers? China was not an industrialized nation like the other powers. The other powers were not in the midst of a full-blown civil war, as China was. I agree that the game should not be scripted to follow history exactly. There should be room for what-ifs. However, it also should not include elements that are complete fantasy
I agree with this. You should include difficult terrain rules for China: tanks and air units should have their movement reduced by one if enter, move or exit from China since is a non industrial country
Also, to prevent fantasy scenarios, delete the ACME wall as well. China was at war with Japan. If Japan had some troops in FIC or Korea or Novo (fanatay anyone? :lol: ) and China had enough force to kill them, you can bet your pants China would attack, it’s a war after all, even if a three sides war (KMT vs Mao vs Japan). If you want simulate chinese civil war there are other ways: the reduced income China has is a way (no way in real life of Japan outproducing China in terms of manpower as does in A&A). Other option is rolling after combat move is done: if China attacks out of China (or moves in NCM) roll one die, with a 6 China don’t attacks due civil war. Other option is split chinese income in two (commies and KMT), make a new maoist sculpt and don’t let commies and KMT mix … and delete the fantasy ACME wall
The Flying Tigers were not chinese (by your own statemens), so the ACME limitation should not include them
Chinese coast were … chinese, you know … the FT should attack lone trannies at least at chinese coast
Face it, Krieg: ACME wall is the fantasy scenario, jap tanks rushing for China is the fantasy scenario, chinese jedi lightsabres destroying ICs is the fantasy scenario, Japan having more air units than China total units and producing more inf than China is the fantasy scenario, Mongolian ACME walls is the fantasy scenario and all that stuff that lets gamey strats happen (as bombers parked in Korea laughing of chinese forces that are going to be uberbombed next round just because a fantasy rules don’t let them attack). It’s not elegant, in fact is the worst rule made in any A&A game. China is not well represented in any A&A game and ACME wall is just the opposite way the things should go
Funcioneta, my Italian compadre, I soo agree with you. China should be able to attack Japanese units outside Chinese home territory. In fact, Chines units did cross the Yalu river and combat-moved into Korea in 27 june 1950 just to attack some enemy forces there.
I dont think the Chinese commies need a specific sculpt. Just use the russian one. As a matter of fact, the Chinese civil war (whats so civil about war anyway?) was not a civil war between chinese, it was in fact a Russian attack on China. Mao was Stalin’s b!tch, he was paid and trained by Stalin, and he jumped when Stalin told him to.
THIS IS A MATTER OF FACTS.
So what we got is a 3-party proxy war. Stalin start the game with one treaty with Hitler and another treaty with Japan. Stalin then attack China and make it look like a civil war, just to not p!ss off USA wich is allied to China. Looks complicated butt is gettin better.
In fact, Chines units did cross the Yalu river and combat-moved into Korea in 27 june 1950 just to attack some enemy forces there.
While this may be a fact it does not apply to World War II and the political situation of the time. China’s current rulers for the most part were in control at this time so of course then they would have expansionist feelings.
Your comparing Apples to Oranges by the attack they did during the Korean War.
Sean
I do not accept the premise that because China wouldn’t have done this or that, we will make a rule that China can’t do this or that. If this is true, then there should never be a KGF strategy. The US would never have ignored Japan for months (years) while it dove into Europe only. On the other hand, I’m not asking to see a set of Chinese battleships and aircraft carriers from Wizards either. I think letting China go into any Asian territory is as close to reality as KGF or KJF.
Lol, if your in a position as China to invade Korea, I think the game is already over anyway.
Historically, Chinese forces were made up of several different types of components, unlike Western or Japanese armies. Other than the better organized Nationalist and Communist armies, most of the Chinese army consisted of and was heavily dependent on local and regional militias. Both parties were always vying for control of these forces which were only interested in defending their own territory and would have no interest in marching into another country.
It’s interesting to note that in the foreign territories in the game where the Chinese army is allowed to operate, the Nationalist army was withdrawn before the conclusion of the campaign to the detriment of their US/UK allies.
I think this restriction is actually historically accurate.
