L22 OOB FINAL LL Myygames (X) VS ABH (L+50)

[crockett36]

https://youtu.be/pN3GcMWcITM?si=0S8oSjajm53XnwRO

A review of the first 3 nations’ moves.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

l22-oob-final-ll-myygames-x-vs-abh-Ru7b.tsvg

Back early. I shouldn’t complain about bomber luck since I got so lucky in my last game and deserve some bad karma.

Game History

Round: 7

    Purchase Units - Russians
        Russians repair damage of 5x factory_major; Remaining resources: 22 PUs; 
        Russians buy 3 artilleries and 1 fighter; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Russians
        1 armour moved from Russia to Bryansk
              Russians take Bryansk from Italians
        1 armour moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
        1 armour moved from Russia to Tambov
              Russians take Tambov from Germans
        1 armour moved from Tambov to Russia
        1 infantry moved from Russia to Samara
              Russians take Samara from Germans
        1 infantry moved from Russia to Vologda
        1 fighter moved from Russia to Vologda
        1 fighter moved from Russia to Vologda
        6 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from Russia to Smolensk

    Combat - Russians
        Battle in Smolensk
            Russians attack with 1 armour, 6 artilleries and 6 infantry
            Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians roll dice for 1 armour, 6 artilleries and 6 infantry in Smolensk, round 2 : 5/1 hits, 4.50 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Smolensk, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Smolensk
            Russians win, taking Smolensk from Germans with 1 armour, 6 artilleries and 6 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
        Battle in Vologda
            Russians attack with 2 fighters and 1 infantry
            Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians roll dice for 2 fighters and 1 infantry in Vologda, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 1.17 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Vologda, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Vologda
            Russians win, taking Vologda from Germans with 2 fighters and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Russians
        2 fighters moved from Vologda to Russia
        2 fighters moved from Northwest Persia to Russia
        5 artilleries and 20 infantry moved from Russia to Smolensk

    Place Units - Russians
        3 artilleries and 1 fighter placed in Russia

    Turn Complete - Russians
        Russians collect 24 PUs; end with 24 PUs
        Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 27 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Germans regular : -0.67
Russians regular : 0.33

[Myygames]

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris l22-oob-final-ll-myygames-x-vs-abh-JAP7.tsvg

Game History

Round: 7

    Purchase Units - Japanese
        Japanese buy 1 artillery, 4 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 5 submarines; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 

    Combat Move - Japanese
        1 armour moved from Manchuria to Sakha
              Japanese take Amur from Russians
              Japanese take Sakha from Russians
        1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Hopei
              Japanese take Hopei from Chinese
        1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Chahar
        1 armour moved from Kweichow to Tsinghai
              Japanese take Shensi from Chinese
              Japanese take Tsinghai from Chinese
        1 infantry moved from Kweichow to Szechwan
              Japanese take Szechwan from Chinese
        1 bomber moved from French Indo China to Chahar
        1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from French Indo China to 36 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 36 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 36 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Caroline Islands to 44 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Caroline Islands to 43 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Caroline Islands to 35 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 36 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 42 Sea Zone to Java
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 41 Sea Zone to Sumatra
        2 bombers moved from French Indo China to Sumatra
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from French Indo China to Java

    Combat - Japanese
        Battle in 35 Sea Zone
            Japanese attack with 1 fighter
            Americans defend with 1 transport
                1 transport owned by the Americans lost in 35 Sea Zone
            Japanese win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
            Casualties for Americans: 1 transport
        Battle in 44 Sea Zone
            Japanese attack with 1 fighter
            ANZAC defend with 1 transport
                1 transport owned by the ANZAC lost in 44 Sea Zone
            Japanese win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
            Casualties for ANZAC: 1 transport
        Battle in 43 Sea Zone
            Japanese attack with 1 fighter
            Americans defend with 1 transport
                1 transport owned by the Americans lost in 43 Sea Zone
            Japanese win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
            Casualties for Americans: 1 transport
        Battle in 42 Sea Zone
            Japanese attack with 1 submarine and 1 transport
            ANZAC defend with 1 transport
                1 transport owned by the ANZAC lost in 42 Sea Zone
            Japanese win, taking 42 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 submarine and 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
            Casualties for ANZAC: 1 transport
        Battle in Java
            Japanese attack with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
            ANZAC defend with 1 infantry
                Japanese roll dice for 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Java, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 1,50 expected hits
                ANZAC roll dice for 1 infantry in Java, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the ANZAC lost in Java
            Japanese win, taking Java from ANZAC with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for ANZAC: 1 infantry
        Battle in Chahar
            Japanese attack with 1 bomber and 1 infantry
            Chinese defend with 1 infantry
                Japanese roll dice for 1 bomber and 1 infantry in Chahar, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,83 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 infantry in Chahar, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Chahar
            Japanese win, taking Chahar from Chinese with 1 bomber and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
        Battle in Sumatra
            Japanese attack with 1 artillery, 2 bombers and 1 infantry
            Americans defend with 2 infantry
                Japanese roll dice for 1 artillery, 2 bombers and 1 infantry in Sumatra, round 2 : 2/0 hits, 2,00 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 2 infantry in Sumatra, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,67 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Japanese and 2 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Sumatra
            Japanese win, taking Sumatra from Americans with 1 artillery and 2 bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
            Casualties for Americans: 2 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Japanese
        5 artilleries and 9 infantry moved from Shan State to Burma
        1 aaGun, 2 artilleries and 4 infantry moved from Yunnan to Burma
        1 armour moved from French Indo China to Burma
        1 armour moved from French Indo China to Shan State
        1 aaGun moved from French Indo China to Shan State
        2 mech_infantrys moved from Kweichow to Shan State
        1 infantry moved from Hunan to Kwangsi
        1 infantry moved from Kweichow to Yunnan
        1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Shantung to Kweichow
        1 bomber moved from Chahar to Kwangsi
        1 infantry moved from Shantung to Anhwe
        2 battleships, 5 carriers, 2 cruisers, 3 destroyers and 2 submarines moved from 36 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from 43 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from 44 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Java to 42 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from 35 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
        2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Caroline Islands to 42 Sea Zone
        2 tactical_bombers moved from French Indo China to Burma
        1 tactical_bomber moved from Japan to French Indo China
        1 tactical_bomber moved from Caroline Islands to 42 Sea Zone
        2 bombers moved from Sumatra to Shan State
        1 submarine moved from 39 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone

    Place Units - Japanese
        1 artillery and 2 infantry placed in French Indo China
        1 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys placed in Shantung
        1 infantry placed in Japan
        5 submarines placed in 6 Sea Zone

    Turn Complete - Japanese
        Japanese collect 52 PUs; end with 52 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Chinese regular : -0,33
Americans regular : 0,33
Japanese regular : -0,33
ANZAC regular : -0,33

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

play this out, or call it a game?

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

Am I missing any rule that prevents me from ignoring your subs and doing this attack?

[Myygames]

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris said in L22 OOB FINAL LL Myygames (X) VS ABH (L+50):

Am I missing any rule that prevents me from ignoring your subs and doing this attack?

you cannot ignore my subs. you need a surface warship for that. At least thats my understanding of the rules :-)

my subs will fight.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

The rules that I see just mention warship. Nothing about needing to be a surface warship. Is there an update that clarifies that?

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

However, a transport cannot ignore enemy submarines to offload land units for an amphibious assault unless at least one warship
belonging to the attacking power is also present in the sea zone at the end of the Combat Move phase.

[Myygames]

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris said in L22 OOB FINAL LL Myygames (X) VS ABH (L+50):

However, a transport cannot ignore enemy submarines to offload land units for an amphibious assault unless at least one warship
belonging to the attacking power is also present in the sea zone at the end of the Combat Move phase.

Actually I also just read that same phrase. My AA rules brain obviously had something different memorized.

I would like it to be confirmed though for obvious reasons. Would be grateful to get confirmation by @Krieghund or @gamerman01 in order to understand if there are flaws in my brain or if I just cannot find the right passage in the book…

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

Good idea to get clarification from a mod.

I also would like a neutral recommendation of a “fair” way to proceed if this was indeed a rule misunderstanding: call it a match, redo non-combat, redo the whole Japanese turn, etc?

[AndrewAAGamer]

ABH is correct. The US sub is able to ignore all the Jap subs allowing the transport to proceed unobstructed.

[Krieghund]

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris A sub is a warship (though not a surface warship), so the presence of a sub allows enemy subs to be ignored for an amphibious assault.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

@Krieghund so what is your recommendation of a fair way to proceed in this match?

[Myygames]

@Krieghund @AndrewAAGamer Thank you for clarification.

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris This is obviously a major miskate of mine. I am fully OK if you decide to not change anything, and will of course surrender after the loss of Tokyo. I think I am anyways far from where the axis would need to be to have a chance to win this game.

Should you decide to continue with modifications I am of course willing to fight on. Nevertheless it would need to be thought on how to do that…

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

@Myygames , how would you propose to address the issue? Go back to non-combat moves and adjust?

[Myygames]

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris said in L22 OOB FINAL LL Myygames (X) VS ABH (L+50):

@Myygames , how would you propose to address the issue? Go back to non-combat moves and adjust?

I don’t think it can be done with the NCM alone. I would need to revise the build I guess.

[pacifiersboard]

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris

uh; none I am aware of.

fierce! You might be to be congratulated?

[pacifiersboard]

@pacifiersboard said in L22 OOB FINAL LL Myygames (X) VS ABH (L+50):

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris

uh; none I am aware of.

fierce! You might be to be congratulated?

for sportsmanship at least!!

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

@Myygames redo the whole Japan turn then including builds and combat. I don’t think it is appropriate to win because of a rule misunderstanding.

Normally I get victory via superior luck.

[pacifiersboard]

sorry, I had loaded the page earlier and not seen all the responses that had be gone already