Europe

[idk_iam_swiss]

That and its illegal to sell or own ANYTHING with a swastika on it in parts of europe. (which is why you never see many german things on the box either)

[Guest]

@idk_iam_swiss:

That and its illegal to sell or own ANYTHING with a swastika on it in parts of europe. (which is why you never see many german things on the box either)

Thank goodness for freedom of speech and freedom of the press. I am glad I live in the U.S.

[WILD BILL]

@FieldMarshalGames:

I would suggest that the LOW COUNTRIES should start as Neutral if this game starts in May 1940.    Also NORWAY should be a Neutral as at the time of the invasion of France.  The issue was not yet decided and the British/French were still engaging the Germans in Norway.

From what I remember the game starts in the mist of the evacuation of Dunkirk (I’m thinking the first week of June). By this time Germany already had control of the low countries. The allies withdrew from Norway the end of May and it fell about 2 weeks later, so it to should be in the axis camp.

[Guest]

Has Larry mentioned the state of Norway at the start of the game?

[WILD BILL]

Quote from Larry:
“By the way… AAE40 begins shortly after Dunkirk. Germany, on its first turn will probably be launching the Battle of France. Belgium, Holland, Denmark and Norway have just been successfully invaded and are occupied. AAP40 will also begin at around that same period (19 months before Pear Harbor). The Japanese can attack any time, but are they really ready? As the controlling Japanese player you decide when and how.”

This should clear some things up.

[Guest]

That leaves very little doubt (+1)

[Flashman]

The Swastika can be replaced by the Prussian Cross, and I think we can all accept why this needs to be done.  More serious is the use of the Allied Italian roundel for Axis Italy, which makes no sense whatever.  It’s rather like using the emblem of the GAB for American control markers.

[Imperious Leader]

Roundels mean nothing and they are not accurate anyway. nations did not use them to represent their positions on the map. Least of all they did not use what are primarily aircraft icons to denote national conquests. This is why Roundels and their ‘accuracy’ are meaningless to axis and allies.

[Guest]

@Flashman:

The Swastika can be replaced by the Prussian Cross, and I think we can all accept why this needs to be done.  More serious is the use of the Allied Italian roundel for Axis Italy, which makes no sense whatever.  It’s rather like using the emblem of the GAB for American control markers.

I for one can not accept that this needs to be done. What are you afraid of a swastika? It has been around a lot longer than the Nazis.

[Krupp Steel]

@Brain:

@Flashman:

The Swastika can be replaced by the Prussian Cross, and I think we can all accept why this needs to be done.  More serious is the use of the Allied Italian roundel for Axis Italy, which makes no sense whatever.  It’s rather like using the emblem of the GAB for American control markers.

I for one can not accept that this needs to be done. What are you afraid of a swastika? It has been around a lot longer than the Nazis.

+1, I’m in the same boat m8. People just make it a bigger problem than it needs to be. I understand the censorship in Europe, but here in North America?

[Funcioneta]

@Krupp:

I for one can not accept that this needs to be done. What are you afraid of a swastika? It has been around a lot longer than the Nazis.

+1, I’m in the same boat m8. People just make it a bigger problem than it needs to be. I understand the censorship in Europe, but here in North America?

For the record, the censorship is only in Germany from a legal point of view. I guess WOTC want not put the swastika just to ensure they can sell the game in Germany

You know, it’s a matter of extremes. In Germany they take one extreme and here in Spain we have the oppositte (we still have Franco’s simbols in some public places and there is still a horse statue of Franco, in Melilla if I remember right). If I could choose, I’d prefer german extreme in this case, but in fact i’d choose a balanced approach (fascist simbols forbidden in public places but still usable in private uses like the matter we are talking. Exaltation of fascism must be forbidden, of course

More data about fascism in Spain: last summer (I mean July, 2009), I was on holidays in Malaga, Spain, and suddenly I saw two cars filled with Falange’s guys (Falange was the fascist party legal in our dictatorship). They were celebrating the start of Spanish Civil War  :x , but the worst is that they had a official policial escort to protect them  :-P It was scary, but luckily the people didn’t supported them. At least, fascists are a very marginal group nowadays in Spain, but still is annoying that police protected them: such class of manifestations should be forbidden because go against democratic values  :|
So it’s not a minor issue in fact

[CWO Marc]

@oztea:

the map is my edit of a previous map i found on A&A.org

I think the previous map was by Der Panzinator.  There used to be a full-sized (global) version of it on his website, plus an earlier prototype and one or two related maps, but his website no longer seems to exist.

[oztea]

i have the map your talking about
but its too large to post, ill zip it up sometime if anyone wants it
its a little clunky, but one of the best ive ever seen

[xzorn]

For the record, the censorship is only in Germany from a legal point of view. I guess WOTC want not put the swastika just to ensure they can sell the game in Germany

You know, it’s a matter of extremes. In Germany they take one extreme and here in Spain we have the oppositte (we still have Franco’s simbols in some public places and there is still a horse statue of Franco, in Melilla if I remember right). If I could choose, I’d prefer german extreme in this case, but in fact i’d choose a balanced approach (fascist simbols forbidden in public places but still usable in private uses like the matter we are talking. Exaltation of fascism must be forbidden, of course

More data about fascism in Spain: last summer (I mean July, 2009), I was on holidays in Malaga, Spain, and suddenly I saw two cars filled with Falange’s guys (Falange was the fascist party legal in our dictatorship). They were celebrating the start of Spanish Civil War  :x , but the worst is that they had a official policial escort to protect them  :-P It was scary, but luckily the people didn’t supported them. At least, fascists are a very marginal group nowadays in Spain, but still is annoying that police protected them: such class of manifestations should be forbidden because go against democratic values  :|
So it’s not a minor issue in fact

Wouldn’t silencing fascists also be going against democratic values?

They should not start after Dunkirk. I mean, what’s the point of adding France if they’re just going to make it fall first turn without a chance? Should we not start at the beginning?

[Guest]

Yeah A&A 39. That’s what I want to see

[lozmoid]

Crikey, I remember Der Panzinator… whatever happened to that guy?

[oztea]

starting in 39 adds too many variables, who is neutral? how do they join the war, certan conditions have to be fufilled? so the axis player simply skirts along these conditions…because they are “rules” that both players know

1939 is open to explotation on the part of the axis because of the strict condtions set for the allies to join the war.

Also the big question of US and USSR who didnt even join the war untill 41’
1940 is about the earliest it can go without a 200 page rulebook

[Tralis]

Larry made his decisions for a reason.

[Guest]

yeah, but was it a good reason?

[Flashman]

I personally don’t have a problem with the Swastika, but I understand why some people do.  In fact I use it on my own maps as you can see from the link below, but this is not a commercial design.

Using aircraft markings rather than national flags gets round the problem by using the German cross, and I also prefer the simple Star for the Soviets rather than the idealogical (and inaccurate) hammer and sickle design always used in A&A.

However using Allied roundels for Axis Italy is just wrong, wrong, wrong.