Carriers

[Guest]

I know if I was busy flying my torpedo bomber and suddenly out of nowhere I was attacked by a fleet of hostile ships, there is nothing I would rather have than my trusty torpedo. This should give me a defensive value of at least 3. :-D

[fanofbond]

I personaly feel that a cost of 18 and two hits will definitly stop stacking. That will increase the percentage of smaller fleets becease a large fleet will be too expensive. Then it will add more historical accuracy because now countries will not build a carrier when they have a little extra money. When considering the purchase of a carrier it now becomes a larger decision. If those two changes are made then it will really bring true navies. Germany will no longer have a rediculous navy of carriers and a battleship. Only the true naval powers of the war will be able to utilize the carriers. Though I saw somewhere in this thread the idea of an escort carrier, they would truely end super stacking and still allow all countries a airforce on the sea. That’s my thoughts on the carriers.

[idk_iam_swiss]

Pretty good idea, I HATE stacking!

[Guest]

The only way to stop stacking is to create more spaces in the ocean, but the drawback will be a slower game.

[idk_iam_swiss]

Would it be a fun game though?

[bugoo]

No matter what you do there will be stacking because of locations where you can build are limited, there may be some stack dancing as you try to outmanuever the enemy stack, but there will always be stacks.  Look at the G/R border in AA50, it is wide open but you still have to stack to win.

[Guest]

Yeah, stacking is hard to avoid unless you can spread your fleet out with different objectives that the enemy has to be concerned about

[Veqryn]

i suppose there could be rules for things like collateral damage, where if your stack is sooo big the enemy could just blindly shoot and hit because you have crowded too many ships in too small a space?
not a bad idea actually, but i have no clue how you would implement it successfully and in a balanced yet fun way

[idk_iam_swiss]

Did stacking happen in the reality?

[LuckyDay]

@Brain:

I know if I was busy flying my torpedo bomber and suddenly out of nowhere I was attacked by a fleet of hostile ships, there is nothing I would rather have than my trusty torpedo. This should give me a defensive value of at least 3. :-D

and the fact that you can climb to 5,000 feet and dodge and weave around their bullets…  :roll:  since it’s still a plane it’s a bit harder to hit than stuff on the ground, a 3 I think is reasonable for what it is…

@idk_iam_swiss:

Did stacking happen in the reality?

oh yeah baby!
look at the battle for tarawa:
The American invasion force was the largest yet assembled for a single operation, consisting of 17 aircraft carriers (6 CVs, 5 CVLs, 6 CVEs), 12 battleships, 8 heavy and 4 light cruisers, 66 destroyers, and 36 transports.

or D-Day:
Allied naval and merchant navy personnel in over 5,000 ships were involved.

or Luzon:
The Japanese forces reported more than 70 Allied warships entering the Lingayen Gulf.

[bugoo]

In the Pacific esp there was heavy stacking, not so much in the atlantic as the UK navy had alot of ground to cover, and no true enemy navy to worry about.  They  protected there convoys and strategic locations like the straits.

[maverick_76]

I think with the larger board you will see less instances of stacking. Of course there will be those monumental battles but those should be spread few and far between to make them all the more grand. If every battle was as big as the one LuckyDay mentioned, it wouldn’t be so grand would it?

[Veqryn]

yes but something actually HAPPENED when there were stacks in reality.

in A&A the defensive rolls and capabilities are too high in relation to the offensive power

I would not mind stacks if people hit each others stacks more often, but instead it usually just turns into a game of never attacking each other and piling higher

[bugoo]

I don’t disagree with ya.  I really don’t understand why carriers are so defensive in nature in this game, or that the only truly offensive sea unit is a nitch unit (the sub).  Carriers should be a 1/1 unit, and we need a heavy cruiser unit, or for the BB to change for a ship that is stronger offensively than it is defensively.

[maverick_76]

Honestly I think that naval units should be the same defensively as they are offensively. I think subs and carriers should be 1-1 (offense-defense), destroyers should be 2-2, cruisers should be 3-3 and battleships 4-4, with carriers and battleships able to take two hits before dying. And of course subs should retain their first strike capability and can retreat on offense or defense.

[idk_iam_swiss]

You want your cake AND you want to eat it too?

[Guest]

@LuckyDay:

@Brain:

I know if I was busy flying my torpedo bomber and suddenly out of nowhere I was attacked by a fleet of hostile ships, there is nothing I would rather have than my trusty torpedo. This should give me a defensive value of at least 3. :-D

and the fact that you can climb to 5,000 feet and dodge and weave around their bullets…  :roll:  since it’s still a plane it’s a bit harder to hit than stuff on the ground, a 3 I think is reasonable for what it is…

@idk_iam_swiss:

Did stacking happen in the reality?

oh yeah baby!
look at the battle for tarawa:
The American invasion force was the largest yet assembled for a single operation, consisting of 17 aircraft carriers (6 CVs, 5 CVLs, 6 CVEs), 12 battleships, 8 heavy and 4 light cruisers, 66 destroyers, and 36 transports.

or D-Day:
Allied naval and merchant navy personnel in over 5,000 ships were involved.

or Luzon:
The Japanese forces reported more than 70 Allied warships entering the Lingayen Gulf.

Yeah Lucky Day, You’re right they should have a retreat value of 3, In this game a defense value is used to counterattack and the torpedo bomber isn’t going to do well there.

[maverick_76]

@idk_iam_swiss:

You want your cake AND you want to eat it too?

You know it!

[Guest]

I’m not buying a cake for you.

[miragehunter]

I agree that AC’s should be 1/1 but still take two hits.  If memory serves correctly.  They had only 50 cal. guns as their only means of defense back in WW2.  Now they have all kinds of fun things to use.  That is why i agree with it being 1/1.  That is why they have planes on AC’s.