@FMErwinRommel Your comments are appreciated as always
NML 1914 - Team Game #3
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@elrood Roman Holiday.tsvg
Round: 24Combat Move - Austria Austria captures 28PUs while taking Italy capital 1 tank moved from Latium to Apulia Austria take Apulia from Italy 1 tank moved from Apulia to Rome Austria take Rome from Italy 29 field_guns, 24 heavy_guns and 45 infantry moved from Latium to Rome Purchase Units - Austria Austria buy 4 field_guns, 18 heavy_guns, 6 infantry and 9 trenchs; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 0 techTokens; Combat - Austria Non Combat Move - Austria 1 heavy_gun moved from Trieste to Austria 1 aaGun moved from Austria to Trieste 1 aaGun moved from Piedmont to Marseilles 1 cavalry moved from Latium to Tuscany 1 infantry moved from Piedmont to Switzerland 9 cavalrys moved from Venice to Vienna 4 heavy_guns and 1 infantry moved from Hungary to Vienna 2 cavalrys moved from Piedmont to Trieste 1 cavalry moved from Tuscany to Croatia 15 tanks moved from Tuscany to Rome 3 cavalrys moved from Tuscany to Venice 1 aaGun moved from Tuscany to Piedmont Place Units - Austria 14 heavy_guns and 3 trenchs placed in Vienna 1 infantry placed in Hungary 3 trenchs placed in Marseilles 2 heavy_guns and 5 infantry placed in Trieste 2 heavy_guns and 1 trench placed in Venice 1 trench placed in Galicia 1 trench placed in Austria Austria undo move 4. 3 field_guns, 2 heavy_guns and 3 infantry placed in Trieste 1 field_gun and 2 infantry placed in Venice Austria undo move 8. 1 infantry placed in Tuscany 1 field_gun and 1 infantry placed in Venice Activate Technology - Austria Trigger AustriaP: Austria has 3 infantry placed in Vienna Turn Complete - Austria Austria collect 92 PUs; end with 92 PUs Austria collect 6 PUs from War Bonds; end with 98 PUs -
Got a pleasant surprise when I captured Rome. Because it was left undefended, I entered it during the combat movement phase and received the capital Treasury before my purchase phase. Thus allowing me to use the 28 PU to buy more units this turn. Which was particularly helpful because R will likely capture my capital this round and would have taken Italy’s treasury from me if I had not been able to spend it this round.
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@fmerwinrommel oh… :-o. That was actually the plan… damn
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I went for Mars first before Rome, because the French army there had a powerful offense, which could have taken northern Italy from me, if I had gone south first. Italy had 14 trenches and mostly infantry. I should have turned back to Italy sooner, as Italy and France together were putting 10 units per turn into Latium. But Turkey collapsed so quickly, that I built units in Hungary and Belgrade before Italy. Just going defensive in the east would have held off R for a while longer, but without a breakthru in Italy, it was just prolonging the inevitable. The income didn’t match what UK & R are getting from conquering T, so it wasn’t a game changer. But I just wanted to show that I could breakout into southern France and take out Italy.
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@fmerwinrommel said in NML 1914 - Team Game #3:
Got a pleasant surprise when I captured Rome. Because it was left undefended, I entered it during the combat movement phase and received the capital Treasury before my purchase phase. Thus allowing me to use the 28 PU to buy more units this turn. Which was particularly helpful because R will likely capture my capital this round and would have taken Italy’s treasury from me if I had not been able to spend it this round.
Yeah, this is a long known bug/issue with TripleA. Many people house rule that you can’t spend it the same turn that or most players know about it and just make sure to leave 1 unit there.
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@redrum ah, so it is a bug, not a feature… then: Mr Rommel: “I want my money back!” :-p
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@elrood too late: seen it , pinched it , spent it!
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@fmerwinrommel said in NML 1914 - Team Game #3:
Got a pleasant surprise when I captured Rome. Because it was left undefended, I entered it during the combat movement phase and received the capital Treasury before my purchase phase. Thus allowing me to use the 28 PU to buy more units this turn. Which was particularly helpful because R will likely capture my capital this round and would have taken Italy’s treasury from me if I had not been able to spend it this round.
😤😠😡🤬
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Well just unspend the 28 IPCs and put them back into your cash account. We did not even spend money on itas turn expecting for russia to get it right after
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Is it churlish to worry about this when the Entente are so close to victory?
Perhaps not. Either Austria should not have been able to spend the money. @redrum describes this as a bug and I guess that everyone except him was taken by surprise?
Or even if we by some strange logic decided that Austria should have the money, then Italy would have spent everything it could rather than banked it, meaning we need to make some edits.
However, if the CPs disagree I guess we should be sporting about it. @redrum is on our side and was party to the plan intending to pass the money to Russia via Vienna’s bank, so we have no excuse for not knowing. If only he had told us!
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@private-panic Well Ron could not have known that france planned to leave not one behind
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@elrood Nor did he tell us of the need to do so Seb. But I would hope that the CPs will have a chat and make a sensible decision. We should be willing to be sporting. I am certain that they will also be willing to be so. :slightly_smiling_face:
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@private-panic I know what you mean, but a bug is a bug is a bug. And should not be exploited. Only because your team is winning you will not let the offside, or hand play slide to be a good sport, would you?
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@elrood My last reply specifically addresses your point I think Seb. We now need to give the CPs a chance to have a chat.
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@private-panic ah I see… soo in contemporary words: “this is not 'nam! There are rules!”
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This situation is not a bug. When a power captures a territory, it’s stated economic income value is added to the captor’s national production level. This income is routinely collected every turn by whomever controls that territory. It’s essentially an income or property tax.
When a capital is captured, its stated territory income is treated the same way. However, in addition, it’s treasury is raided, and per page 21 of the rulebook for Europe 1940 Second Edition, the unspent IPC’s are “immediately” transferred.
This one time income transfer is not the same as routine economic income, and therefore, one should not automatically assume it be treated the same way. If a defender had been left in the capital, the conquest and transfer of the treasury would not have occurred prior to the purchase phase. Since conquest occurred during combat movement phase, the treatment is open to interpretation. One can’t assume the intentions of the authors, just because the rulebook doesn’t explicitly address this unusual circumstance.
I choose to interpret it as it stands. Our particular situation is one of a kind. The more common reason to leave a defender in the capital is to prevent the capturing power from building immediately, rather than from losing the treasury income completely.
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Dawg, its your turn.
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Sorry, to clarify, I was just pointing out that this is a known issue with having combat move before purchase which NML and other TripleA maps do instead of the standard purchase at the start. This game is honestly way over at this point so no need to edit anything and generally we play by how TripleA enforces it unless specified otherwise in the rules.
@FMErwinRommel So NML is primarily based on AA-50 not Global ruleset. That being said the issue is due to the combat move being before purchase phase so none of the official A&A rulesets will address it. The motivation behind doing combat move first in many large TripleA maps is to make purchase easier so you can decide what you are going to attack to better plan your purchase but the goal wasn’t to impact any of the default rules (capital capture was essentially a side effect). While the NML rules don’t list this, the WaW rules (which are fairly similar to NML) actually specify the differences including this one due to the changed phase order and recommend leaving a cheap unit to avoid the issue:
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@redrum Where can the rules for WAW be found? I looked but saw none
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