I agree with Simon’s conclusion that Moscow falls G6. No need for Sea lion after UK1 DOW on Japan. This game is going to end very badly for the Allies unless the Axis player is very weak. Play some tougher competition!
Converting to KJF
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Crockett see my pm regarding the Russians.
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@thedesertfox
So what do you suggest the US does?A: gather around Hawaii and fight till death
B: withdraw to San Francisco and built up for a KJF? -
@squirecam
You can’t end your turn with a Japanese fleet within 2 spaces of mainland US when not at war. Hawaii is 2 spaces to mainland US so you can’t post your fleet around hawai J1. -
@cornwallis Actually I think you can for OOB, if you count sz 10 and 12 as the Two spaces!
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@cornwallis said in Converting to KJF:
@squirecam
You can’t end your turn with a Japanese fleet within 2 spaces of mainland US when not at war. Hawaii is 2 spaces to mainland US so you can’t post your fleet around hawai J1.You absolutely can.
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Hawaii is a legal move.
Per the Pacific 1940 2nd Edition Rulebook; page 37:
When not yet at war with the United States, in addition to the normal restrictions (see “Powers Not at War with One Another,” page 15), Japan may not end the movement of its sea units within 2 sea zones of the United States’ mainland territories (Western United States and Alaska).While it may only be two spaces to get to SZ 10 from SZ 26, SZ 26 is still 3 zones away.
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@andrewaagamer yes my bad i miscalculated. Then how can you prevent hawaii from falling if not a KJF?
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@cornwallis said in Converting to KJF:
@andrewaagamer yes my bad i miscalculated. Then how can you prevent hawaii from falling if not a KJF?
Apparently the majority of people seem to like a J1 attack and go towards India. So it isnt something you would see often.
If you spend all the US money in the pacific you will eventually get Hawaii back.
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@cornwallis said in Converting to KJF:
Then how can you prevent hawaii from falling if not a KJF?
You can’t. If Japan wants to take Hawaii they can. Just like if they want China it is theirs or if they want India it is theirs. However, they do not have enough units and money to take them all so Japan has to pick and choose which ones they want. Since losing Hawaii is the least important of the three just mentioned most Japanese Players will not go for Hawaii.
If the Japanese Player threatens Hawaii just make sure you have an ANZAC ship in the south to block them at Johnston Island if they try and get Hawaii and then swing down to take New Zealand/Queensland followed by Sydney for a quick win.
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@andrewaagamer said in Converting to KJF:
@cornwallis said in Converting to KJF:
Then how can you prevent hawaii from falling if not a KJF?
You can’t. If Japan wants to take Hawaii they can. Just like if they want China it is theirs or if they want India it is theirs. However, they do not have enough units and money to take them all so Japan has to pick and choose which ones they want. Since losing Hawaii is the least important of the three just mentioned most Japanese Players will not go for Hawaii.
If the Japanese Player threatens Hawaii just make sure you have an ANZAC ship in the south to block them at Johnston Island if they try and get Hawaii and then swing down to take New Zealand/Queensland followed by Sydney for a quick win.
I agree with this, except that Hawaii is not the least important of the three.
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no, but he means if japan takes that one first, the USA just takes it back.
All the early attacking and dancing around america is just a waste of time for Japan.
Same is true in the other direction–if you have a properly bid game and japan attacks on turn 1, then USA might go that way. Tokyo isnt going to fall, but like AAAGamer says, Moscow or Calcutta probably will.
G40 still has a weak shuck compared to 42.2 so the greater difficulty in winning the game is
- diplomacy is anti-allies
- there are no rational victory conditions
- everyone modding the game keep jamming in their own ideas rather than trying to fix whats already there first
- It takes 16-20 turns for AxA to playout and live games dont usually last that long
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@taamvan Agree with All your of points, for a little of over a year now my group has been playtesting our G40 variant house rules over the YouTube currently- we’re addressing the last of your 3 points to try to fix and find a balance between the two sides, we almost got it finished and will share it with the community hopefully by Summer’s end!!!
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@taamvan USA does not just “take it back”. They must build the majority of their forces in the Pacific to even do so. And if they do it avoids the triple team on Germany.
And if they dont then Japan wins the game.
And I dont see what a rational victory condition is. You cant simply let the Allies ignore an entire side of the board.
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@squirecam Yes, the axis wins the unmodded game. That’s why KJF doesnt work and KGF barely works. In our last G40 game, the allies were winning on every front, great luck, then moscow was taken with ease and the game is thrown back up in the air after 10 hours of play.
A rational victory condition would be something other than “take an Axis capital” That has never happened in any live game i’ve played except Rome. Now how about having the VC “take down both axis capitals” maybe in 60-70 turns i guess, not 8-12.
The Axis have a rational victory condition. Take 6 cities, or 8. That means the Axis have to run a 100 meter dash to win, while the Allies have to win a marathon.
Japan can’t simply take over Hawaii as a walk on, turn 1. If they attack pearl harbor, thats a J1 and it kills 4 wimpy ships, so Japan is in the worst possible situation (early war, no bonus, no income–usa has max income).
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@taamvan I have not supported a J1 and wouldn’t for the exact reasons you state. But that doesnt mean the VC are irrational.
You say that the Allies were winning on every front. Explain this. Did they have Africa locked up? Were they in Normanday? Did Japan have the money Islands? Did China and UK take Hong Kong?
If those above are true, then losing Moscow is only a temporary setback. Germany gets an influx of cash but then must race tanks back to the west when the USA should be building out of a conquered Italy.
If people want to race to moscow then you either take it early or the axis will lose. I dont play that way but many do.
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That turn where Japan had everything surrounding hawaii and yet was not at war demonstrated like nothing I had seen previously how stupid the political rules in this game are. Everyone works so hard to balance the game. Just change the politics. Especially Russia! Why can’t Russia change history?
And Why can Japan end in US Territories. Chicanery! And L got a lot of community help with the alpha iterations. In other words I blame you all! Lol
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Taamvan, I agree with your ideas. I agree that the tools are there for fixing it. Take away politics, take away NATIONAL objects or decrease them. Add gargantuan s bid.
The mods are fun. If we’ve learned anything in a year of playtesting it’s that the corrections can quickly effect things.
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@crockett36 in face-to-face games without a battle calculator, the game is relatively even and historically accurate to a surprising degree. It takes a long time for players to be experienced enough to find the meta that allows the Axis to consistently win in a game without a bid.
The move towards Hawaii is indeed the worst option between the possible openings for Japan. The United States has enough income to overwhelm the IJN after a few turns, forcing them into a long retreat back to more valuable targets. American air units built to expel the Japanese from the Eastern Pacific can be rapidly pivoted to support an invasion of Western Europe.
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@arthur-bomber-harris I can’t unsee Or unknow what I know. I haven’t played enough different tabletop players to know if the game is balanced for them. I hear it as a bromide but have no data to back it up.
I’m skeptical. The fragility of the allies logistical structure is mostly learned through loss. It requires a depth of thinking that is not obvious. Whereas the Germans and Italians attacking Moscow is intuitive.
I do agree about Hawaii.
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