Converting to KJF

[squirecam]

@cornwallis said in Converting to KJF:

@squirecam
You can’t end your turn with a Japanese fleet within 2 spaces of mainland US when not at war. Hawaii is 2 spaces to mainland US so you can’t post your fleet around hawai J1.

You absolutely can.

[AndrewAAGamer]

Hawaii is a legal move.

Per the Pacific 1940 2nd Edition Rulebook; page 37:
When not yet at war with the United States, in addition to the normal restrictions (see “Powers Not at War with One Another,” page 15), Japan may not end the movement of its sea units within 2 sea zones of the United States’ mainland territories (Western United States and Alaska).

While it may only be two spaces to get to SZ 10 from SZ 26, SZ 26 is still 3 zones away.

[Cornwallis]

@andrewaagamer yes my bad i miscalculated. Then how can you prevent hawaii from falling if not a KJF?

[squirecam]

@cornwallis said in Converting to KJF:

@andrewaagamer yes my bad i miscalculated. Then how can you prevent hawaii from falling if not a KJF?

Apparently the majority of people seem to like a J1 attack and go towards India. So it isnt something you would see often.

If you spend all the US money in the pacific you will eventually get Hawaii back.

[AndrewAAGamer]

@cornwallis said in Converting to KJF:

Then how can you prevent hawaii from falling if not a KJF?

You can’t. If Japan wants to take Hawaii they can. Just like if they want China it is theirs or if they want India it is theirs. However, they do not have enough units and money to take them all so Japan has to pick and choose which ones they want. Since losing Hawaii is the least important of the three just mentioned most Japanese Players will not go for Hawaii.

If the Japanese Player threatens Hawaii just make sure you have an ANZAC ship in the south to block them at Johnston Island if they try and get Hawaii and then swing down to take New Zealand/Queensland followed by Sydney for a quick win.

[squirecam]

@andrewaagamer said in Converting to KJF:

@cornwallis said in Converting to KJF:

Then how can you prevent hawaii from falling if not a KJF?

You can’t. If Japan wants to take Hawaii they can. Just like if they want China it is theirs or if they want India it is theirs. However, they do not have enough units and money to take them all so Japan has to pick and choose which ones they want. Since losing Hawaii is the least important of the three just mentioned most Japanese Players will not go for Hawaii.

If the Japanese Player threatens Hawaii just make sure you have an ANZAC ship in the south to block them at Johnston Island if they try and get Hawaii and then swing down to take New Zealand/Queensland followed by Sydney for a quick win.

I agree with this, except that Hawaii is not the least important of the three.

[taamvan]

@squirecam

no, but he means if japan takes that one first, the USA just takes it back.

All the early attacking and dancing around america is just a waste of time for Japan.

Same is true in the other direction–if you have a properly bid game and japan attacks on turn 1, then USA might go that way. Tokyo isnt going to fall, but like AAAGamer says, Moscow or Calcutta probably will.

G40 still has a weak shuck compared to 42.2 so the greater difficulty in winning the game is

1. diplomacy is anti-allies
2. there are no rational victory conditions
3. everyone modding the game keep jamming in their own ideas rather than trying to fix whats already there first
4. It takes 16-20 turns for AxA to playout and live games dont usually last that long

[Nolimit]

@taamvan Agree with All your of points, for a little of over a year now my group has been playtesting our G40 variant house rules over the YouTube currently- we’re addressing the last of your 3 points to try to fix and find a balance between the two sides, we almost got it finished and will share it with the community hopefully by Summer’s end!!!

[squirecam]

@taamvan USA does not just “take it back”. They must build the majority of their forces in the Pacific to even do so. And if they do it avoids the triple team on Germany.

And if they dont then Japan wins the game.

And I dont see what a rational victory condition is. You cant simply let the Allies ignore an entire side of the board.

[taamvan]

@squirecam Yes, the axis wins the unmodded game. That’s why KJF doesnt work and KGF barely works. In our last G40 game, the allies were winning on every front, great luck, then moscow was taken with ease and the game is thrown back up in the air after 10 hours of play.

A rational victory condition would be something other than “take an Axis capital” That has never happened in any live game i’ve played except Rome. Now how about having the VC “take down both axis capitals” maybe in 60-70 turns i guess, not 8-12.

The Axis have a rational victory condition. Take 6 cities, or 8. That means the Axis have to run a 100 meter dash to win, while the Allies have to win a marathon.

Japan can’t simply take over Hawaii as a walk on, turn 1. If they attack pearl harbor, thats a J1 and it kills 4 wimpy ships, so Japan is in the worst possible situation (early war, no bonus, no income–usa has max income).

[squirecam]

@taamvan I have not supported a J1 and wouldn’t for the exact reasons you state. But that doesnt mean the VC are irrational.

You say that the Allies were winning on every front. Explain this. Did they have Africa locked up? Were they in Normanday? Did Japan have the money Islands? Did China and UK take Hong Kong?

If those above are true, then losing Moscow is only a temporary setback. Germany gets an influx of cash but then must race tanks back to the west when the USA should be building out of a conquered Italy.

If people want to race to moscow then you either take it early or the axis will lose. I dont play that way but many do.

[crockett36]

That turn where Japan had everything surrounding hawaii and yet was not at war demonstrated like nothing I had seen previously how stupid the political rules in this game are. Everyone works so hard to balance the game. Just change the politics. Especially Russia! Why can’t Russia change history?

And Why can Japan end in US Territories. Chicanery! And L got a lot of community help with the alpha iterations. In other words I blame you all! Lol

[crockett36]

Taamvan, I agree with your ideas. I agree that the tools are there for fixing it. Take away politics, take away NATIONAL objects or decrease them. Add gargantuan s bid.

The mods are fun. If we’ve learned anything in a year of playtesting it’s that the corrections can quickly effect things.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

@crockett36 in face-to-face games without a battle calculator, the game is relatively even and historically accurate to a surprising degree. It takes a long time for players to be experienced enough to find the meta that allows the Axis to consistently win in a game without a bid.

The move towards Hawaii is indeed the worst option between the possible openings for Japan. The United States has enough income to overwhelm the IJN after a few turns, forcing them into a long retreat back to more valuable targets. American air units built to expel the Japanese from the Eastern Pacific can be rapidly pivoted to support an invasion of Western Europe.

[crockett36]

@arthur-bomber-harris I can’t unsee Or unknow what I know. I haven’t played enough different tabletop players to know if the game is balanced for them. I hear it as a bromide but have no data to back it up.

I’m skeptical. The fragility of the allies logistical structure is mostly learned through loss. It requires a depth of thinking that is not obvious. Whereas the Germans and Italians attacking Moscow is intuitive.

I do agree about Hawaii.

[Sire Fred]

This post is deleted!

[Sire Fred]

@crockett36 said in Converting to KJF:

So up until now I’ve been solidly a KGF guy. Guard against the vapid VC win, and go to town in Europe. The factor that always pushed it over the edge is the race to get planes to defend Moscow seemed/is shorter via Europe. They always arrive too little, too late. The politics is much worse in the Atlantic.

But, with Japan starting at 26, it would appear easier to trip them up on their way to 64 than to trip up Germany. I discovered that a vast majority of the American units can make their way to Wake Island. Bring transports and units and drop a naval base t1 and you are in position to move to Guam. Anzac can contribute all air and sea units by t2 and can land on newly captured islands to act as scramblers. You can put out blockers as well.

Your purchases would be subs and planes t1, 2, and 3 so that if the force were attacked your reserves would counter attack. You would take your air units as casualties first so that the fleet would go down. I’m calling this Half the Empire strategy. gotta go.

When the US goes to war, you could use Caroline or Queensland that way without having to invest in a naval base. Both of them are in range of Hawai and Queensland is more protected.

[crockett36]

@sire-fred Caroline is off limits til turn 4 and ql is useful for operations in the far south. That is convenient for the Japanese. They can threaten Calcutta and shield themselves at the same time.