@monroe No. OOB strategic bombers can only attack facilities and ground units.
That said, I do have a house rule I like that allows them to carpet bomb naval units, but @1 instead of @2
What is the best thing to do with strat bombers?
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@gen-manstein War Crimes would hinder VP’s most likely.
@Trig -
@insanehoshi said, “Take note that repairing a facility takes a whole turn, so it will be out of action even if the opponent repairs it (though a repaired major factory still get a tech roll).”
I disagree with this. I think facilities are repaired in the production phase. I can see where the wording of one sentence may make it seem that it takes a whole turn, but I believe that is only referring to capital ship repair.
The stated fact that you can repair a major factory, and then roll for tech, that same turn, seems the strongest support of my opinion.
I’d welcome the opinion of others.
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I don’t think talking about bombing cities and what not and “war crimes” is such an off base thing to consider in this game. It’s a WWII simulation/themed game. Terrible things happened, and as @GEN-MANSTEIN pointed out, at what point do you hold all sides accountable for their war crimes in a game like this (yes, the U.S. is guilty of war crimes in WWII as well).
Cities were bombed, plain and simple. I don’t see a harm in simulating this in game somehow. While I don’t think taking VP’s away would work, I think you could do something where if a city is bombed so much it losses it’s city defense bonus. Maybe an SBR could be expanded to include bombing cities specifically, as opposed to just the facilities within to accomplish this. It would have a lot of potential negative affects for a the player doing the bombing though too. Maybe you make the bombing power pay 2 IPP to the bank or something to show public opinion going against them for doing it.
Getting really house-ruley for a thread that wasn’t about that though, sorry!
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@chris_henry
@GEN-MANSTEIN
I understand your point.
However, I think that putting war crimes in the game, things like terror bombing, unrestricted sub warfare, concentrations camps, etc. is a very risky thing. When one puts such a tactic into that game, you are confirming it as a viable tactic, something we should try to avoid. Sinking ships without warning, or bombing civilians are not things that we want to promote or confirm, even unintentionally.
My little brother (under 10) plays with me sometimes. I don’t want him think that because we can something in game means we can do it in real life. I find that staying away from such things is the best course. This is a similar reason I don’t use swastika markers in my game. Adding such a feature is easily seen as condoning it.
I understand that all sides committed crimes. I do not support any such behavior, and hope that someday, it will all cease and the antagonists held accountable. The perpetrator of a crime has no effect on its horror, and no bearing on this situation.
This is not a simulation. We can have noble leaders in game who do not chose to go down that vicious path.
Let us not repeat the mistakes of our predecessors. -
@Chris_Henry Bombing cites would give more cover, as proved in the battle of Stalingrad.
@Trig Totally agree with you.
I think carpet bombing cities should damage the IPP output. Also, I think that AA guns and carpet bombing accuracy should double since it happens in a small area. -
i like how this turned from Strat bomber strategy to house rules for strat bombers… really? how about strategies for what most people play with? Our group doesn’t house rule strat bombers and don’t plan on it.
My suggestion is to strat bomb london or N Italy if possible. Carpet bomb in china or Carpet bomb islands in the pacfic or anywhere you can reach that has units and no AA gun / intercepting aircraft. Hit railroads if that is your best target- do whatever is available and gives the most reward for the least risk.
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@trig Got it, you’re issue is from a cultural point of view then. Can’t say I disagree with you there at all! I totally get what you’re saying. I would certainly never advocate for a game to be sold with rules like that at all. These are just talks for the hard core gamers here that are trying to simulate the war. Personally, it’s not a rule I would plan on using anyways, I was just chiming in on how cities could potentially be changed in that way.
But it’s just that point isn’t it? There’s a big difference between simulate and emulate, and you blur the lines on what’s considered to be culturally acceptable to emulate if you make it the day to day norm! Putting in a game begins to do that, I would agree.
@Chris_Henry Bombing cites would give more cover, as proved in the battle of Stalingrad.
@David-06 I meant in terms of the city being a “valued” target any longer.
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@bretters I agree, the thread got really derailed haha. I also tend to not do a ton of house ruling, just got caught up in the conversation haha.
I agree, I think strategic bombing Italy is probably really worth it. They don’t make much IPP throughout the game, and any IPP spent to repair facilities is going to hurt!
I like to try and use strategic bombing in conjunction with planned attacks to whenever I can. Strategic bombing an airbase in one attack to stop defending fighters from scrambling to help in an adjacent attack, for example, can be really useful!
I also think bombing London is good when you can. Keeping the UK battered some for as long as you can is really helpful towards buying time in the West.
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It explicitly says “Each repair job takes a full turn and uses a production slot for that turn.” I can see how that can be confusing, but disregarding any FAQ it seems quite explicit.
Repaired Majors getting a tech roll, is simply an exception to the rule.
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@insanehoshi I would like to point out that that quote comes after the topic switches to capital ship repair.
Here is the full quote:
"A player may spend IPP to repair damaged facilities. Facility damage is noted with damage markers. (a) Capital ship damage is noted with damage markers. To get repaired, as ship must be at a friendly shipyard or dockyard. A friendly Dock-/Shipyard may repair one hit per free production slot at no cost. Thus a minor Doc-/shipyard may repair one hit per turn, and a major Dock-/shipyard may repair 5 hits per turn. Each repair job takes a full turn and uses a production slot for that turn. The repair is finished in the Place New Units Phase of the same turn."There is no mention of facility repairs from point (a) onwards. With the intervening text, I find it more logical that the facilities are repaired immediately, and the turn delay applies to capital ships, the subject of the previous sentences.
Also, it doesn’t matter, as long as you can repair the facilities before you place units. If you cannot, I highly oppose any such ruling, on the grounds that you can shut down a nation’s entire production indefinably with sustained bombing. That is not the intent here in my opinion.Note: Nowhere in the rules can I find how much it cost’s to repair one damage point. That might be important to have.
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@trig While it might be more logical they are repaired immediately, that’s not supported by the text. While it may be pedantic, it is a linguistic opinion that the final sentences in the paragraph on repair don’t apply to the whole paragraph. At the end of the day it says “Each repair job takes a full turn…”
One could make an inference based on the position of that text, sure, but that would be going against the Rules as Written.
on the grounds that you can shut down a nation’s entire production indefinably with sustained bombing.
Also FWIW if we go with my interpretation, repair would not affect production of units, as the repair is done in the place units.
In either case, its probably worthy of a FAQ/Errata.
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@insanehoshi My main point is that I think that sentence only refers to capital ship repairs. It is a valid linguistic assumption, and fits with the practical and historical (A&A) picture.
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It is quite important, as unrepaired airbases and naval facilities would not boost movement during the turn, if they were not repaired until the end of the turn.
It also seems logistically illogical that you could be building units at a factory, while repairing it. Repairing it, first, then building units, makes more sense.
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It’s runith off the tracks again.
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@gen-manstein No, as railways are damaged until the end of turn. ;)
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@insanehoshi
FAQ:
Q: When are damaged facilities repaired?A: In the Production Phase. Thus, they can be used in the same turn.
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