Brazilian IC

[tloger]

I have not seen too many people talk about this, but recently when I play the US I like to put an IC in Brazil right away to shuck units seemlessly into Africa.  Another benefit is that it is in direct striking distance of the European coast.  In other words it doesn’t take two turns to get to France or the Netherlands like it does from Eastern US.  This way I can shuck 3 units to Africa and Europe and commit the rest to the Pacific.

[Jennifer]

Dunno, I sorta like sending the Americans after the Japanese.

Then again, I don’t have a lot of luck with Brazilian Complexes in any of the games really.

[katfishkris]

i put a IC in brazil last time i played.  but by the time i did, it was very late in the game, and the Italians stole it with a some help from the germans.  i think it would work out well, just have to do it right away.  be careful though, a german IC in france lets them put boats in the Med, and from there it is only two spaces to brazil.  thats how i lost it.

[wally]

seems like a waste of an aircraft carrier to me when the Eastern U.S. is so close by.

[Jennifer]

@katfishkris:

i put a IC in brazil last time i played.  but by the time i did, it was very late in the game, and the Italians stole it with a some help from the germans.  i think it would work out well, just have to do it right away.  be careful though, a german IC in france lets them put boats in the Med, and from there it is only two spaces to brazil.  thats how i lost it.

A German IC in France means the allies can SBR them for 32 IPC in damage every round.

I can’t say I ever like the idea of a German IC in France, unless of course, you’ve already defeated Russia in which case, why are the allies still playing again?

[katfishkris]

only if u have bombers, which i did not.  matter of fact i had very little at that point in the game.  i just dont like to quit.  think i had 2 fighters in brazil, a carrier w/ 1 ftr, 1 cruiser, and 2 destroyers in sz 18, which the germans shelled. easy for italy to take brazil then.  dam germans.

[tloger]

If you do go the Brazil route it has to be first round.  i use seazones 22 and 23.  early in the game those are pretty safe seazones, you  don’t have to worry about replenishing transports every round. pretty much all i spend in brazil is a man, tank, and artillery, thats just enough every round to help Brtitain, of course if I am all the allies i like to have a  S. African IC, its my personal opinion that if Britain retains Africa there is economic parity. The rest of my money is exclusively Pacific after the Brazil buys. If German or Ity navy starts to poke its nose out of the med, then you are obviously forced to send some bombers or a few fighters. Generally I have at least 3 bombers and a fighter or two on a British Carrier by Britain from 1st round moves and a bomber buy as well first round, that usually defuses the option of Italy venturing out early.  Its not a fool proof plan by any means, but it seems to make some games interesting.  i don’t tend to look at games from wins or loses, just as long as its a fun game. So give the Brazil connection a try, sometimes the Axis players become hell bent on breaking that route and it sometimes messes up their plans early if they are committed on destroying it.

[axis_roll]

@Cmdr:

A German IC in France means the allies can SBR them for 32 IPC in damage every round.

I can’t say I ever like the idea of a German IC in France, unless of course, you’ve already defeated Russia in which case, why are the allies still playing again?

That is because you advocate a strong push game plan with the Axis (specifically Germany)

Germany can play a slower game, ensuring France does not fall by adding an IC to France.  Some argue that an IC in France also weakens an allied SBR campaign because there are more places to be bombed/pieces to placed (16 instead of only 10).

You also advocate SBRs as the allies, turning a large part of the game outcome into a game of “who can roll ones first” by bombing Germany and Italy.

Players who are more adverse to AAA guns or who are playing the optinal escort rules on SBR runs might think an IC in France is a good move.

[panzer666]

good idea.I see the IC in brazil will put tranny’s in range of africa and shuck to libya.This gives the tranny’s longer range.I now believe the allies can win with the america building an IC in Brazil …Norway maybe finland,and England building IC in india and SA.Overall the australian navy must meet up the americans the retake islands(american flat top has 2 fighters on it)

[Octopus]

The Brazil IC is an economic trap. Consider the complex costs 15 and the transport is 7, making the total is 22 IPC’s.  The exact same effect can be achieved shucking from Eastern Canada with 2 tranports (1 transport each way) for only 14 IPC’s. The actual liability issue is up for debate but since the Allies would make a big deal of Brazil, I would make it a big deal as the Axis (in the form of a Bomber threat against the transport). The Allies would then be forced to build more fleet to counter the bombers and the economic mismatch grows further.

Personally, I vote down on the IC in Brazil but I imagine there might be an exception for it eventually.

[Corbeau Blanc]

There was a discussion on this on another old thread I can’t find but what I liked of a brazilian IC was if it was used in conjunction with an early sinking of Italian fleet.

UK would buy 3 bomber turn 1, sink Italians UK2

Sea zone 23 can hardly be hit from france based bombers unless they want to land in Africa ( sea zone 22 litterally cannot be hit from France ) so it was a cheap way to keep reinforcement going to Africa.

For me it was great since I could spend most of my income afterward into the pacific and still send enough gear to support Africa without having to maintain an US Atlantic fleet or hold sea zone 12.

[Gargantua]

BRZ complex only has one purpose.  To control Africa.

If G1 and I1 are REALLY good. Britian is hammered and there are tanks free to blitz Africa, a BRZ complex is a good idea.

Outside of that… shucking units though ECA with a fleet in Sz12 to ALG is a superior option (As long as you have control of the rest of the continent)

“Of note”: A BRZ complex in AA-Revised is the golden nie/unbeatable Allied strategy. Combined with close monitoring of aircraft placement and maximization of units on the board.  Because Control of Africa, means Control of enough IPC’s to constantly have more per turn than the Axis.

[jsp4563]

I like the Brazil IC in theory, but rarely get one.  It’s most effective if bought on US1 but that’s when US income is at it’s lowest ($40).  On US1 I always tell myself, hey let’s buy that IC in Brazil, and then after crunching numbers buy ships. :-P :-P

[Butcher]

Yeah, I think that the U.S. is better served by trying to get it’s units into battle asap. Building an IC doesn’t seem to help that objective as much as bulding a carrier or other ships.

[Jennifer]

Well axis, you may ask Botider what he thinks about building an Industrial Complex in France, as Germany against me, but I’m sure he’s going to support my following statement:

If the axis put an IC in France, especially early in the game before the war in Russia is decided, you are begging the allies to go on a major SBR campaign.  With the price of bombers at 12 IPC, even without a tech option, there is absolutely no reason England cannot have two bombers and America put 2 new ones on the board every round.  Eventually you’ll have more bombers than industrial complexes to bomb which is good, because you are covered in case of loss.

With an IC in France, there is virtually no reason you cannot expect 28-32 Damage to Germany and 10-12 Damage to Italy (with the two Brit bombers to pick up slack if the Americans fall short.)

How many rounds can the Axis take of that before they lose?  It is virtually possible for Russia to ignore the Germans and Italians after round 5 and dedicate it’s life to making Japan frustrated while the Americans and British build up forces in Africa/Europe.

[axis_roll]

@Cmdr:

Well axis, you may ask Botider what he thinks about building an Industrial Complex in France, as Germany against me, but I’m sure he’s going to support my following statement:

If the axis put an IC in France, especially early in the game before the war in Russia is decided, you are begging the allies to go on a major SBR campaign.  With the price of bombers at 12 IPC, even without a tech option, there is absolutely no reason England cannot have two bombers and America put 2 new ones on the board every round.  Eventually you’ll have more bombers than industrial complexes to bomb which is good, because you are covered in case of loss.

With an IC in France, there is virtually no reason you cannot expect 28-32 Damage to Germany and 10-12 Damage to Italy (with the two Brit bombers to pick up slack if the Americans fall short.)

How many rounds can the Axis take of that before they lose?  It is virtually possible for Russia to ignore the Germans and Italians after round 5 and dedicate it’s life to making Japan frustrated while the Americans and British build up forces in Africa/Europe.

So 5 less inf for Germany signals the Allied Bomber command to go into overdrive?

5 inf are the key to the allied game plan decision?  In other words, what stops the allied from running an SBR campaign anyways, regardless of an IC in France or not.  Recall that Germany does not NEED to repair those damages to the French IC…

Also, more bombers = less navy = less units for the axis (germany/italy) to need to worry about landing …

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An Axis IC in France offers some options, like enabling ftrs stationed in Germany to hit an allied navy in sz12.

[axis_roll]

we’re hijacking this thread.  This is supposed to be about the Brazilian complex.  Our France IC’s discussion should continue in the "Germany must ALWAYS build IC to win game in Anniversary? " thread http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=14953.0

[dondoolee]

@Gargantua:

BRZ complex only has one purpose.  To control Africa.

If G1 and I1 are REALLY good. Britian is hammered and there are tanks free to blitz Africa, a BRZ complex is a good idea.

Outside of that… shucking units though ECA with a fleet in Sz12 to ALG is a superior option (As long as you have control of the rest of the continent)

“Of note”: A BRZ complex in AA-Revised is the golden nie/unbeatable Allied strategy. Combined with close monitoring of aircraft placement and maximization of units on the board.  Because Control of Africa, means Control of enough IPC’s to constantly have more per turn than the Axis.

While I haven’t really played with it too often, it does seem like it would be an option on the table to counter a great axis open.  I am always hesitant though to allocate that many resources away from Europe,  particularly if Germany is buying aggresive builds and Japan is focusing on south Asia.

[critmonster]

I can see the Brazilian complex in a US pacific heavy campaign where UK is putting everything into europe and needs help liberating africa. The additional bonus would be getting ground troops (USA) to persia to slow the Jap advance while your pacific builds forced jap navy investment. that being said, the build limit in Brazil would most likely doom this strat.

[Panzer Leader]

I like the idea of a Brazilian IC, but to me it takes away that needed money for the Pacific. I
n my opinion the US should buy a Pacific fleet on turn one. UKs T1 moves it fleet from Australia to the Solomon islands and then US moves its ships to Solomons as well. Turn two they move their new purchased fleet to join the Solomons or move the whole thing to Carolines if availble. This puts immediate pressure on the Japanese right on turn 2. This is more important then Africa which will take several turns for the Axis to capture all the territories if played correctly by UK. UK can even hold the southern Africa countries if played they move back from Egypt.

So I would say an IC in Brazil is not a necessary thing. I agree with Octopus that Eastern Canada is a better way to bring across troops to prepare for landing.