Thanks SS! This helps tremendously!
AA50-1943
-
I like the idea! Though I don’t like extra rules, just make it the way they made 1942 and 1941: different set-up, and different order of play. I like 1943 because this time, it’s not the Axis who will hit the first turn, but the Allies will also get to deal a few blows. Ofcourse, the map should be balanced, which will need some extra units in the back ranks of the Axis to recover from the hits…
How about:
1. Russia (recaptures Stalingrad + kills 5+ arm near Kursk)
2. Germany (intercepts American + British DD’s and trns with 3+ subs in the Atlantic, recovers from Kursk and Stalingrad, Rommels in Africa)
3. USA! (starts Island hopping: for the first time in A&A history, USA gets to do something early in the game :D )
4. Jpn recovers from the Island hopping + embarasses China
5. UK (Pattons in Africa, goes SBR with 2 bmrs on Germany)
6. Ita (joins the battle in Africa, fortifies France)Hmm, I might devise a little ABattlemap set-up for this :)
-
Owkey, tinkered around a little, made up a historically totally inaccurate map, but with some nice moves in the opening round :)
characteristics:
-USSR recapture of Kursk and Stalingrad in R1
-Germany can get Egypt at G1, but then UK can reclaim it, but Ita is also in the field
-German U-boats are going to do a lot of damage in G1
-US gets Ngu back in turn 1
-US+UK ready to go SBR the hell out of Germany
-IC in France to represent atlantic wall + give a little boost to Germany
-Siberia is empty: those forces went to recapturing StalingradIt’s merely a scratch, so please correct/improve historical accuracy/balance/fun/playability.
-
can you get this as a JPEG or PNG? (something anybody can DL or look at here without loading up some program)
-
I can…
-
Im sorry but this is too much like 1942. The axis are too strong. I am working on this and will post by tuesday.
-
Great start everyone :)
I think we should try not to focus so much on the 1941/1942 set ups as something set in stone, and focus primarily on the gameplay of the 43 scenario itself. What I mean is, lets think of 43 as an opportunity to fix issues with the other two set ups, instead of piggybacking more stuff on top them. And if a departure from the other set ups seems like it might add to the gameplay, then maybe it could be seriously considered. Does that make sense? For example:
Should Germany have a battleship in sz 5?
I feel like they really should have had one in the 41/42 set ups, so can’t we give them one in 43? You know it would make the naval game more interesting. :-DOr
Should the USA have a large starting fleet in sz 56?
Given how easy it is to backtrack from 56 to the Atlantic, I think it would be better to have them pretty much all the US ships based in sz 53 or sz 46.I think we should ask questions of that sort and really try to weigh out the pros and cons of an idea before committing to it. Remember that there is no rush for this thing. The 41 and 42 scenarios should be enough to keep us all entertained for several months, so we have plenty of time to plan for 43. HolKann has some good ideas here, and I’m sure Imperious Leader will have some good stuff too. No pressure at this point though, since we’re still in the brainstorming phase ;)
-
germany should definitely have a battleship in a 1941 setup. symbolises their larger fleet before the destruction of the bismarck and the containment of the tirpitz
-
I got one on my set up. IN Baltic representing Tirpitz
-
This is not complete and i don’t believe in the viability of a “Stalingrad” because to include that is too much 1942 and we already got that. Its not useful to make a scenario thats just before and after one battle.
This setup is July 1943, but i suspect is actually earlier because Torch has landed and the Axis are still in Africa ( they were swept out in march 43) so this is a period of feb 1943 actually.
I have not playtested it yet
http://www.mediafire.com/?ygh5yjyn2ng
BY this time the following get these techs as follows:
Improved artillery- each art may now support 2 inf to attack at 2 ( Soviets, Germans)
Rockets- Your antiaircraft guns are now rocket launchers. In addition to its normal combat function, during the strategic bombing raid step of your Conduct Combat phase each turn, each of your antiaircraft guns can make a single rocket attack against an enemy industrial complex within 3 spaces of it. This attack does 1d6 damage to that complex. ( Germans on turn 3)
Paratroopers
Each of your bombers can act as a transport for up to one infantry, but it must stop in the first hostile territory it enters during a turn and drop off the infantry, ending its combat movement. The bomber may still attack during the Conduct Combat phase, but it cannot make a strategic bombing run in a turn that transports an infantry unit. The infantry unit may retreat normally to a friendly adjacent space during combat. ( Germans, USA)Increased Factory Production
Each of your industrial complexes can produce two additional units beyond its listed IPC value. For example, Germany with 10 IPCs can now produce 12 units. Also, when repairing a damaged industrial complex (removing damage markers), you can remove two damage markers at a time for the cost of 1 IPC (half price). (Germans, USA, Soviets)War Bonds
During your income phase, roll 1d6 and collect that many additional IPCs. ( USA)Mechanized Infantry
Each infantry that is matched up with a tank can move two spaces along with the tank. ( Germans, USA, Soviets)Air/ Naval
Radar- Your antiaircraft gun fire now hits on a 1 or 2 instead of just a 1. ( UK USA)
Long-Range Aircraft
Your fighters are now long-range fighters and your bombers are now long-range bombers. Your fighters’ range increases from 4 to 6. Your bombers’ range increases from 6 to 8. ( USA Japan)Heavy Bombers
Your bombers are now heavy bombers. You roll two dice for each bomber when you attack or make a strategic bombing raid. On defense, your bombers still roll only a single die. ( USA on turn 4)Shipyards- cheaper naval costs (minus one SS, TRS, DD, minus two CA, CV, BB) ( Japan, USA)
Improved Shipyards
Your sea units are now cheaper to build. Use these revised costs.UNIT……IPC COST
Battleship…17
Aircraft Carrier…11
Cruiser…10
Destroyer…7
Transport…6
Submarine…5Super subs- The attack value of your submarine is now 3 instead of 2. The defense value of your submarines remains at 1.
( Germany on turn 4)Jet fighters- The attack value of your fighters is now 4 instead of 3. ( Germany on turn 3)
-
@Imperious:
Im sorry but this is too much like 1942. The axis are too strong. I am working on this and will post by tuesday.
Seen the gigantic USA fleet? The emptyness of Siberia? The toughness of the Chinese?
=> This will be totally different from 1941/2 because USA + Chi will play a meaningful role in the Pacific. Also, remember that the order of play is:
Russia, Germany, USA, Japan, UK, Ita => the Japanese fleet and the German army will get some heavy blows before they start out, I’d rather give the allies the advantage.Nonetheless, this map isn’t good/balanced/historical, but it’s just pointing out some of the possibilities (like doing a stalingrad/kursk and some island hopping on the first turn).
Your map looks OK, I like the 4 inf in China part :) And also the US fleet in Pacific and the US having conquered Libya (that’s really different from previous maps, like it double!) But what’s the Order Of Play? And why is Burma still Brittain controlled? (looked it up in Wikipedia, and Japan and UK were battling it out along the Indian border).
I do hope there are some nice opening battles in your map, but need an OOP for that… -
Looks pretty cool so far. I especially like the set up in India. :)
I think it would be cool if Germany had the capability to reinforce the Afrika corps via the med though. Historical arguments aside, the game is usually more entertaining if Germany has a more lasting presence in Africa. I’d say the USA fleet in 56 is still a little large. Again discounting the importance of San Diego for the home fleet, I think 56 is just too close to Panama for comfort. If more of those ships were based at Pearl it would make a pull out move to the Atlantic more difficult. Other than that though it feels pretty sweet. I especially like the new location for the Flying Tigers in China
Couple general points
1. The opening round should be playbalanced using low luck rules. Personally I don’t like Low Luck and will always remain a dice man, but a set up balanced under LL will also be balanced under standard dice rules… with added benefit that the set up won’t go bust for LL players later on. Basically this is to prevent an overly one dimensional LL game like you usually see in Revised. Play testing with LL is relatively simple to do with tripleA, so it should be no problem. As soon as we know what the starting set up is going to be, I’ll go ahead and build a new AA50-43 xml file for beta testing purposes. I’m sure we could do the same with the other programs as well, to ensure broad based feedback.
2. After the initial set up is determined, we should allow for a period of review (say 2-3 months of serious playtesting and feedback) after which point we can take suggestions and make final adjustments to the set up, in case any game breakers slipped through. Its important that we allow for this sort of public review, because you can be damn sure we won’t catch everything that our players will. By taking a more open and flexible approach to the set up design, we can ensure that it will be as balanced and entertaining as possible. This should also help us to reduce the necessity for a bid, or at least it will make sure that its a low bid, if we do end up needing one.
3. Scripted Attacks, these should be avoided whenever possible. What I mean by “scripted attacks” are those sorts of moves (like the J1 attack on Pearl in Revised, or the G1 attack on the British Battleship in sz 13) where the advantages to attacking are so obvious that it becomes an unavoidable engagement. Not that we don’t want to have interesting battles in the first round, just that we should make sure that these aren’t so overwhelmingly one sided that they become a given. We should avoid major round 1 battles where the outcome is just a foregone conclusion (60-75% or more) and especially we should avoid battles which are supposed to be a given, but which can tank the entire game if they go poorly (the Primo example being the German attack on Egypt in Revised.) Instead we should try to put things into more of a 50/50 arrangement, so that a wild swing in any single battle, is less damaging to the overall set up. Does that make sense?
4. Finally, we gotta get you a thumbnail sized map to work with Imperious Leader, that PDF is just gigantic hehe :-D
Great Work everyone. Lets keep kicking the ball forward ;)
-
Should Germany have a battleship in sz 5?
I feel like they really should have had one in the 41/42 set ups, so can’t we give them one in 43? You know it would make the naval game more interesting.germany should definitely have a battleship in a 1941 setup. symbolises their larger fleet before the destruction of the bismarck and the containment of the tirpitz
I completely agree.
-
BUMP
how is this going IL? i’ve got some spare time over the next few evenings, so i’m going to go over your map and all of the suggestions and see if i can come up with anything to add
really looking forward to a 1943 set-up :-)
-
I have been working on new AARHE stuff and have not done anything with 1943. But its in the pipeline by the start of the new year.
-
the problem i would have with a map like this is hat the Allies are overpowered. Historicaly this is when the Axis were just starting to get their butts kicked by everyone at this point and i couldn’t see how you could avoid the same situation(in the game) this late in the war.
-
bbrett3, i agree with what you’re saying. which is why i think it would be best to set a goal like ‘axis must survive X amount of round to win the game’, or something to that effect (this was mentioned earlier in the thread)
otherwise, you could always just set a few goals for each nation. which ever side accomplishes the most goals on their side wins the game
-
axis must survive X amount of round to win the game
This is exactly what needs to be done. The disadvantage in material is to be made up with some unique rules:
SS panzer tanks
Automated techs for Germany and others
Hitler assassination rules
partisans
underground factories
Alpine fortress
some fog of war rules for Germany to simulate -
what point in 1943 do we want to start the setup at? early, mid, late?
-
ok, i’ve been doing a bit of research and pondering. this is what i’ve come up with so far (apologies for listing things that have already been mentioned as well, but i’m just making one big representation to help everyone):
set the time at the start of April, 1943. going off the 1941 board setup (so the territories marked), these would be the territory changes (i know you made a map IL, but i think some of the control markers weren’t right):
- Germany places control markers on the territories Baltic States, Belorussia, East Poland, and Ukraine
- Japan places control markers on the territories Fukien, Kwangtung, Burma, East Indies, Borneo, Philippine Islands, and Wake Island
- UK places a control marker on the territory Morocco Algeria (i felt UK did more in Africa than USA, so they should get the territory). but in regards to this, does everyone feel Tunisia (the last place of German and Italian forces in Africa) is more located in Libya?
technologies:
- Advanced Artillery (Russia starts with this)
- Rockets (Germany unlocks these automatically on turn 4)
- Paratroopers (USA and Germany both start with this)
- Increased IC (USA starts with this, Germany unlocks on turn 3 to represent spread out industrial capacity, and Albert Speer taking over armarment production)
- War Bonds (USA either starts with this, or unlocks it. thoughts?)
- Mechanized Infantry (Russia and Germany both start with this)
- Super Submarines (Japan and Germany both start with this)
- Jet Fighters (Germany unlocks this on round 2)
- Radar (UK starts with this. Should Germany unlock it in round 2 or 3?)
- Heavy Bombers (USA unlocks this on turn 3)
i think some special rules are in order, as we mentioned earlier, but we need to decide on what ones. here are some i was thinking about:
- Russian infantry attack on 2 without artillery after a certain round (so on round 2 and onwards), to represent the massive man-power the Russians utilised in the second half of the war.
- Partisans in axis territories (not including capitals). something like roll 1 die for every 4 units garrisoned at the end of a round. partisans need to roll a 1 to hit, and defender can choose casualties like a normal fight
- Germany can place 2 of its purchased units into any controlled territory (that was held at the start of its turn) to symbolise the spread of industrial capacity
- Italy conceeding. something like roll 1 die in round 4. if 2 or less, Italy becomes neutral for the rest of the game. any Germany or Japanese forces in Italian territory can withdraw to a friendly territory. any Allied units can retreat to a friendly territory, or by sea onto free transports. if this is not possible, then they are taken off the board. All Italian units are taken off the board
- Japanese infantry defending on an Island defend on a 3
so what does everyone think? once we sort this out, we can try to agree on unit placement
-
During my sleep i thought about this idea for VC:
To foster the political influence that directly influenced the pattern of strategy only one coalition can “win” the game and the rest place 2nd , or 3rd
Basically the game is 4 factions and 2 fronts: western allies, Germany/Italy, Japan, and Soviets with the European and Pacific fronts.
In each front you add up the points you receive to determine a winner and 2nd , 3rd, etc.
In Europe we assign points as follows:
Western Allies:
Hold Germany for a complete game turn= 9 points
each originally controlled German or Italian territory=1 point
Control France and not let it get recaptured = 3 pointsSoviet Union:
Hold Germany for a complete game turn= 9 points
each originally controlled German or Italian territory=1 point
Control of each non-Soviet pre 1941 Territory= 2 pointsAxis:
Hold Germany till turn 5= 3 points
for each turn after turn 5 they hold award 3 points to German player. Example: on turn 8 they get 9 points
Hold any part of Italy= 2 points
Each originally controlled territory you also control in addition to the aforementioned award 1 point.In Pacific we assign points as follows:
Western Allies:
Each original Japanese territory (including islands) captured= 1 point
Invade Japan and capture= 9 points
Recapture Philippines= 2 pointsSoviet Union:
capture mainland japanese occupied territory= points = to IPC value of these territories. This may include Chinese or formerly British colonies.Japan:
control Japan till turn 6= 3 points
each turn they control japan after turn 6 award 1 point
Award 1 point for each territory they control on mainland
Award one point for controlling Philippines after turn 6Now each coalition adds up the total points in both theaters. In the case of Axis, Germany and Japan are added to determine the result.
SS panzers:
up to 6 total elite panzers can be created at the rate of one per turn and not more than 6 can be in play at any time. The are 4-5 units moving 2 and cost 7 you can also convert any armor unit to this elite status by paying 3 IPC
conversion can take place at the end of your turn.Soviet Shock Armies:
up to 6 total elite troops can be created at the rate of one per turn and not more than 6 can be in play at any time. These are 4-4 units moving 2 and cost 6.Surprise offensive:
Germany gets to hide X amount of forces off the map and must write down where they are hidden or move to. If in combat the allies attack this area, they fight all the units as they are now exposed. Also, in combat the German player can surprise the allies with his counter offensive…again only once per game.Hitler Assassination:
Starting on turn 3 or latter, the German player has the option to roll for an attempt on Hitlers life. 1-3 attempt succeeds, 4-6 attempt fails.If it fails:
no effect.If it succeeds:
1)all SS panzer units on the board are reconverted immediately to normal units. You no longer can build these units.2)Germans get war bonds technology
- The Germans now have the option of concluding a separate piece with the western allies. If they choose this path, they immediately receive 3 points and acquiesce to giving the western allies the territory of Germany outright.
The German player also receives points in accordance with his other victory conditions, but he may never return to Germany and instead must get his points from continuing to fight the Soviet player only.
This means they are giving UK/ USA 9 points in the game. The German forces are at the command of the western allies as a new ally, however they are still played by the German player and play on the German turn.
the Germans can also decline this option, but it is their decision alone. They can bargain for some ‘arrangement’ with the western allies, but it may not be a binding decision. Essentially, the German player can play the power broker for post war Europe.
- The Soviets do not have to accept this decision. They may attack Germany themselves but must do so within one turn of the new Anglo-German arrangement. This is basically triggering WW3 and both the Soviets and western allies fight over Germany. If either faction controls it for 1 complete turn they are awarded the points.
Of course other territories can be fought over and the German/Italian player can still get points for holding territories other than Germany/Italy.
Atomic Weaponry:
Also by turn 6 id give the US player two A- Bombs, in order to deploy them he must have heavy bombers tech.
The first bomb dropped roll 3 D6= lost units worth of IPC, The second bomb roll 5 D6= lost units IPC. The attacker chooses loses and they must be as close as possible to total w/o going over total. Each turn following they get one additional bomb to drop and use 5 D6 results.of course normal AA rules apply.
Each time you drop this weapon on an enemies original home capital roll one die: and the result is lost Victory Points.
If you drop it on a territory that was liberated, or not a capital territory, then that player is just losing pieces and not Victory points.Kamikaze planes:
Japan can use its fighters to crash into enemy naval vessels. Each fighter now attacks at 4 and selects a naval target. If it hits or misses the fighter is destroyed, but the hit allocation goes to the selected unit.Japanese Dreadnoughts:
one Japanese battleship now takes 3 hits and is a 5/5 unitThey can build a second unit for 24 IPC, but no more than 2 on the map at any one time
Japanese Carrier/ Battleships: BBAV
up to one battleship ( not the dreadnought) can accommodate one fighter like a carrier.
Japanese Island defenders:
Each small island can only accommodate up to 2 land units and each defends at +1, The invading player can invade with any number, but only capture the small island with 2 land units. Small islands are the obvious small territories on the map. They don’t include japan, dutch east Indies, Borneo, etc. They include Caroline, Wake, Midway, Marianas, Hawaii, Okinawa
Blockhouses:
Using the d-day pieces, these can be placed in any land territory even if you do not have a factory. They fire twice at 3 (like an AA gun roll against attacking land units but every round). They can protect up to two units requiring 2 hits to kill. These cost 6 IPC and only one per territory can be built
National Redoubt:
The German player can decide to make a last stand in the Bavarian alps at any point in the game. All SS units are immediately placed in Hungary/Czechoslovakia and the German factory is moved to this location. This is a special factory that cannot be bombed of its IPC because its considered underground. The new territory gets 2 IPC, but the German player gets a one d6 worth of extra cash each turn but placement of forces is still limited to 2 per turn.