General 6 Stars 1941 WW2 Game

[baron Münchhausen]

@SS-GEN
Hi SS,
Reducing naval Fg cost within your roster seems less interesting because C6 for DD, C7 for Sub.
If you need to keep A4 D4 M4-5 C8 for Naval, maybe make the “1” bonus on offense while, on defense, “2” or less pick an enemy’s aircraft in addition.

Maybe land based Fg can be more impressive in defense?
Fighter A4 D5 M5-6 C8, “1” on offense, “2” or less on defense.

If you feel “1” is too low, rise the critical to Attack “2” or less; Defense “3” or less for both Fg types.

Also, 2 hits Carrier cost can hardly go lower 12 IPCs, because DD fodder is 6 IPCs for 1 hit.

If keeping Carrier Defense 3 against aircraft only, it is another reason to use “3” or less on defense to get 1 hit bonus on aircraft with Fighter.

It becomes a small way to upgrade the defense feature of Full Carrier without adding a better number like considering rising Carrier to Defense 4.

About the multiplier number for 2 hits unit, it is 2.62.
2.5 can be a good approximation with brain only calculator.

To get the strength of Full Carrier, you add up the ratio and divide by 3 units.
If CV on Defense is 0.70, 2 Fg 1.00 each, sum: 2.7 / by 3 = 0.90 avg.
Since DD, Cruiser and BB are at 1.00 or above for both offense and defense, you can compare the numbers from full Carriers.

Cheers,

[General 6 Stars]

Hi Baron. Ya I know about the divide by 3 for full carrier.
We played with Figs AD@4 with 1 round of dog fight. The fighter was to weak for ground vs Inf.
So we raised it back to AD@5 and added bonus plane kill and dropped the DF round.
The reason for N. fig being lower AD@4 is based on they only had I believe big bullets and most didn’t carry bombs or torpedos
except maybe US later in war. 2 N. figs should not get to kill a battleship. So we made it some what OK now and besides land fighters were better than N. figs and the other reason why we made land fighters AD@4 naval only is based on the Axis have a huge advantage and its to strong for Japan.
I just researched N figs. yes they did have bombs on them. So I’m going to look at making figs and N. figs D@5 against naval units.

You do realize that most attacking fleets don’t bring there Carriers to the battles so the defending Carriers being attacked have the advantage already with D@3 plane and taking 2 hits ?

[General 6 Stars]

Well looks like we’re going with next game Carriers cost 12 and figs and n figs AD@5 and if roll is a 2 or less kill a bonus DF plane.
Tac / Dive will stay AD@5 if roll is a 3 or less pick target

[baron Münchhausen]

@SS-GEN said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

Well looks like we’re going with next game Carriers cost 12 and figs and n figs AD@5 and if roll is a 2 or less kill a bonus DF plane.
Tac / Dive will stay AD@5 if roll is a 3 or less pick target

It keeps a randomized factor about picking target or not.
On paper, TcB/DvB A6D6 C10 with “3” or less pick target seems to me a better fit in your roster cost structure.
Not as high as Cruiser A7 C9, but better than Sub A5 C7. Also, making it @6 make for a better trophy when rolling a “1”.

But, since Carrier is lowered to 12 IPC and NFg A5D5 C8, a fully loaded CV Fg+DvB bring more punch aboard for the price.

Also, you also have a lots of in-game infos feedbacks about TcB, DvB killing ratio and balance in naval or land combat to count on. Did you make AAA similar to Carrier but on land?

What is the main difference between TcB vs DvB? Range?

You may consider giving +1 bonus damage to TcB vs DvB, land based can lift more payloads at least…

Besides, are you going to see Midway movie?

[General 6 Stars]

@baron-Münchhausen said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

@SS-GEN said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

Well looks like we’re going with next game Carriers cost 12 and figs and n figs AD@5 and if roll is a 2 or less kill a bonus DF plane.
Tac / Dive will stay AD@5 if roll is a 3 or less pick target

It keeps a randomized factor about picking target or not.
On paper, TcB/DvB A6D6 C10 with “3” or less pick target seems to me a better fit in your roster cost structure.
Not as high as Cruiser A7 C9, but better than Sub A5 C7. Also, making it @6 make for a better trophy when rolling a “1”.

But, since Carrier is lowered to 12 IPC and NFg A5D5 C8, a fully loaded CV Fg+DvB bring more punch aboard for the price.

Also, you also have a lots of in-game infos feedbacks about TcB, DvB killing ratio and balance in naval or land combat to count on. Did you make AAA similar to Carrier but on land?

What is the main difference between TcB vs DvB? Range?

You may consider giving +1 bonus damage to TcB vs DvB, land based can lift more payloads at least…

Besides, are you going to see Midway movie?

I’ll look at the Tac/Dive bomber AD@6 roll 3 or less pick target but as mentioned the N. Fig has been raised in AD.
Now its easier for guys & new where 4 planes are now AD@5. Fig, N. Fig, Tac & Dive. So for the 2 extra cost for Tac & Dive bomber is for can pick target. Granted the Dive can only move 4 but its on a Carrier.

AAA similar to Carrier on land I’m assuming AAA gun D@3 against planes. The answer here is no not yet but it is on table for future changes. Also Subs C7 A@4 D@2 pick target or C7 A@5 D@2 if roll is a 1 pick target.

Difference between Tac and Dive Bombers are Dive Bombers can only move 4. Tacs can move 5.

Ya I might go see Midway. I got a bud that goes to movies on opening day so I wait for his Imput.

[General 6 Stars]

There is some option changes out there yet.
DD C7 A3 .73
AC C12 D3 .65
N. Fig C8 D5 .94
Dive C10 D5 .60 = 2.19
C30 D13 = 2.19 .73
3 DD A9 C21 = 2.19 .73

DD C6 A3 1.00
AC C12 D4 .87
N Fig C8 D5 .94
Dive C8 D5 .94 = 2.75
C28 D14 = 2.75 .91
3 DD C18 A9 = 3.00 1.00
Good chance land AAA gun goes to D@3. Depends on if there’s
Spam plane buys. Definetly be easier if all planes C8 and AD@5.
The issue in game is with planes is from what I’ve seen in over 80 games at least
are is one side always is either to weak or to strong because its land planes mostly
in Europe and N planes in Pacific and of course extra land figs from Japan.

Remember BB CR DD each if roll is a 1 get a
bonus AA plane kill same time.

[baron Münchhausen]

@SS-GEN

Personally, I like this new Sub: C7 A@5 D@2 if roll is a 1 pick target.

I see the interest of these 4 being similar:
Now its easier for guys & new where 4 planes are now AD@5. Fig, N. Fig, Tac & Dive.

Personally, if all aircraft go at Cost 8, I like this variation: bombers being A5 D4 while Fighters being A4 D5.
Bombers being better on offense, Fighters better in defense (kind of air interdiction).

This would definitely be my choice:
DD C6 A3 1.00
AC C12 D4 .87
N Fig C8 D5 .94
Dive C8 D5 .94 = 2.75
C28 D14 = 2.75 .91
3 DD C18 A9 = 3.00 1.00

But, can Carrier still be OK with @4 vs aircraft?

If a lot of Axis aircraft go into Europe, my guess is that AAA must be at Cost 4.
You may try to make them more affordable and efficient to help USSR.
Maybe, @2 against up to 4 aircraft each round, but 3 IPCs, only.
I don’t remember how it works and values in your game.

Also, a different mechanic maybe use to help defend against many attacking aircrafts:
In land combat, a “1” roll can be applied to AAA instead of a precious aircraft.
So, Fg or TcB attacking rolling “1” allowed defender to pick AAA unit as the critical hit effect.
But if “2” was rolled for attacking Fg then defender must hit his aircraft.

[General 6 Stars]

@baron-Münchhausen said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

@SS-GEN

Personally, I like this new Sub: C7 A@5 D@2 ***if roll is a 1 pick target
I seee interest of these 4 being similar:
Now its easier for guys & new where 4 planes are now AD@5. Fig, N. Fig, Tac & Dive.

Personally, if all aircraft go at Cost 8, I like this variation: bombers being A5 D4 while Fighters being A4 D5.
Bombers being better on offense, Fighters better in defense (kind of air interdiction).

This would definitely be my choice:
DD C6 A3 1.00
AC C12 D4 .87
N Fig C8 D5 .94
Dive C8 D5 .94 = 2.75
C28 D14 = 2.75 .91
3 DD C18 A9 = 3.00 1.00

But, can Carrier still be OK with @4 vs aircraft?

If a lot of Axis aircraft go into Europe, my guess is that AAA must be at Cost 4.
You may try to make them more affordable and efficient to help USSR.
Maybe, @2 against up to 4 aircraft each round, but 3 IPCs, only.
I don’t remember how it works and values in your game.

Also, a different mechanic maybe use to help defend against many attacking aircrafts:
In land combat, a “1” roll can be applied to AAA instead of a precious aircraft.
So, Fg or TcB attacking rolling “1” allowed defender to pick AAA unit as the critical hit effect.
But if “2” was rolled for attacking Fg then defender must hit his aircraft.

@baron-Münchhausen said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

@SS-GEN

Personally, I like this new Sub: C7 A@5 D@2 if roll is a 1 pick target.
YES I DO TOO.
I see the interest of these 4 being similar:
Now its easier for guys & new where 4 planes are now AD@5. Fig, N. Fig, Tac & Dive.

Personally, if all aircraft go at Cost 8, I like this variation: bombers being A5 D4 while Fighters being A4 D5.
Bombers being better on offense, Fighters better in defense (kind of air interdiction).
YA BUT FIGS DO HAVE BETTER PLANE VS PLANE KILL THAN A BOMBER
This would definitely be my choice:
DD C6 A3 1.00
AC C12 D4 .87
N Fig C8 D5 .94
Dive C8 D5 .94 = 2.75
C28 D14 = 2.75 .91
3 DD C18 A9 = 3.00 1.00
YES I LIKE THIS A LOT TOO.
But, can Carrier still be OK with @4 vs aircraft?
YA GOES TO @3 WHEN DAMAGED.
If a lot of Axis aircraft go into Europe, my guess is that AAA must be at Cost 4.
You may try to make them more affordable and efficient to help USSR.
Maybe, @2 against up to 4 aircraft each round, but 3 IPCs, only.
I don’t remember how it works and values in your game.
WITH AAA GOING TO C4 WON’T MATTER WHEN U CAN ONLY USE 1 GUN.
Also, a different mechanic maybe use to help defend against many attacking aircrafts:
In land combat, a “1” roll can be applied to AAA instead of a precious aircraft.
So, Fig or TcB attacking rolling “1” allowed defender to pick AAA unit as the critical hit effect.
But if “2” was rolled for attacking Fig then defender must hit his aircraft.
GETTING TO COMPLEX NOW.
COULD MAKE ALL AA GUNS IN EUROPE & UK DEFEND @3 ONLY. OR ADD MORE AAA GUNS IN
RUSSIA SETUP.

Yes if a lot of aircraft in Europe makes the Germans to strong. Most battles don’t have defending planes unless its a Capital
attack where defending planes are used mostly or a victory city you need to hold to prevent an Axis victory.
Also Tac/Dive can single out AAA guns too on attack or defense at @4. You just can’t use them in the battle now. Its a one shot at AAA gun if it survives the AAA defending shot @2.

The highlited and Cap text is so you can see my answers. Sorry, but I can’t believe i can change color unless its there somewhere.

EDIT: This is what we may go with. Group discussing now.
Gave 3 options. Right now each option voted once. Will see.
AC C12 D4 1 AC 2 N figs C28 D14 .91
1 AC 1 N. fig 1 Dive C29 D13 .83
1 AC 2 Dive C30 D12 .78
3 DD C21 A9 1.00
Fig/N fig C8 A4 D5
Tac/Dive C9 A5 D4
SS C7 A5 D2 if roll is a 1 pick target.

This way it seems to be the counter for both sides of map
with Axis having more attacking figs than allies at start.

[baron Münchhausen]

@SS-GEN said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

There is some option changes out there yet.

DD C6 A3 1.00
AC C12 D4 .87
N Fig C8 D5 .94
Dive C8 D5 .94 = 2.75
C28 D14 = 2.75 .91
3 DD C18 A9 = 3.00 1.00
Good chance land AAA gun goes to D@3. Depends on if there’s
Spam plane buys. Definetly be easier if all planes C8 and AD@5.
The issue in game is with planes is from what I’ve seen in over 80 games at least
are is one side always is either to weak or to strong because its land planes mostly
in Europe and N planes in Pacific and of course extra land figs from Japan.

Remember BB CR DD each if roll is a 1 get a
bonus AA plane kill same time.

About Aircraft issues, did you try somekind of air retreat for attacker and defender?

Or allowing maybe 2 aircraft to land on a just conquered TTy assuming none can be part of this if only 1 move left.

[General 6 Stars]

Yes attacking and defending planes can retreat after 1 round of combat or any round after1.

[baron Münchhausen]

@SS-GEN said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

Yes attacking and defending planes can retreat after 1 round of combat or any round after1.

What did you observe about this rule during play?
Does defending player use it or forget to use it?

Is it a 1 move retreat for defender?

[General 6 Stars]

@baron-Münchhausen said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

@SS-GEN said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

Yes attacking and defending planes can retreat after 1 round of combat or any round after1.

What did you observe about this rule during play?
Does defending player use it or forget to use it?

Is it a 1 move retreat for defender?

Yes it’s a 1 move only for defending planes.
I’ve seen it a battle with scrambling figs were defender lost a few planes from DF and if lost to many ships so best to save a plane or 2.
I used it as a defense in a land territory for 1 round and then land in a territory 1 move away but can’t to another territory being attacked.
Not much in pacific unless u are around islands you control.

[baron Münchhausen]

HI @SS-GEN,
Discussing Submarine combat values, here is a picture about Attacking 3 Defending 2 Cost 5:

Compared to Submarine A5 D2 Cost 7:

With Sub A3 D2 C5, you have more room to increase attacking value with various bonus without being too near of Heavy Cruiser @7 firepower.

Also, from Germany POV, if you need to attack an Allied fleet, it becomes easier to sacrifice Subs while keeping aircraft at 8 IPCs.

[Folgore77]

I would like to donate this Tiger Tank (I painted and dolled up recently) to the next battle at the General’s Fortress, November 16th. If accepted, he will serve proudly for the German player on the Eastern Front or in the Ardennes.

[General 6 Stars]

Yes you can. Will make it A10 D10. Lol
You have heard of the White Tiger right ?

[Folgore77]

Lol Those are awesome A/D ratios. No, I haven’t heard about the White Tiger. I looked it up and I see the Russians made a movie about it though. Do you have a good resource you can point me to to learn more about it?

[General 6 Stars]

I know of the movie. I watched it. As far as having one no idea. Wouldn’t think so. Stand out like a sore thumb. It will
On map lol

[Folgore77]

@SS-GEN Considering you don’t have any painted tanks, yes, it will stand out like a sore thumb. lol But if you’re worried about that, we don’t have to use it. I can keep it for my Anniversary map. Your call.

[General 6 Stars]

Whatever you want to. I don’t mind either way. Bring it. Will see if it lives. Maybe a Tac will
Single it out. Lol

[General 6 Stars]

@baron-Münchhausen said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

HI @SS-GEN,
Discussing Submarine combat values, here is a picture about Attacking 3 Defending 2 Cost 5:

Compared to Submarine A5 D2 Cost 7:

With Sub A3 D2 C5, you have more room to increase attacking value with various bonus without being too near of Heavy Cruiser @7 firepower.

Also, from Germany POV, if you need to attack an Allied fleet, it becomes easier to sacrifice Subs while keeping aircraft at 8 IPCs.

I see your point but mostly Ger wants to save as many subs as possible for convoy raiding after T1. I’ll have to show u want I mean. In order to keep UK income as low as possible helps the Normandy landings get delayed and to represent the battle of thee Atlantic.