German AA50 -41 strategy

[03321]

It doesn’t seem to me that NOT attacking is an option for G1 in the 1941 scenario given the production discrepancy between Axis/Allies.

[Cyprian]

I wasn’t suggesting not attacking, just a change in tactics.  In my scenario the only territory you wouldn’t necessarily take would be Ukraine.  You could make an attempt at ukr with 1 inf, 1 Art and 1 fighter against 2 inf.

The point is to take Karelia on g2 and thus gain an IC on russia’s door step fast.  I do admit that the potential R2 counter attack might negate this.

[03321]

Oooh, you meant Baltic States not Balkans. Should’ve realized that since massing Balkans doesn’t do much of anything.

[Cyprian]

Oh, yes you are right.  I meant Baltic states.

[Lynxes]

All of G1 strategy should be directed to getting as many inf into Russia as possible. You should build at least 6 and up to 10 inf, and choose a CV, BMB or tanks if you want to. UK fleet will be able to avoid Italy and rebuild, so your subs should either fall back to North Sea or attack that BB. In North Sea they can lure in the British fleet, submerge after one round and then you can pound it with your air force and cruiser. The BB attack is a bit risky since if you fail and retreat with your FTR it is sitting duck in Norway and I suspect you can’t lose a single air unit as Germany. I suspect attacking the DD and TRS off Canada is the safest attack w 2 subs, and might be a standard opening.

UKR: taken but only with a token inf force w air support. Italy can then destroy any invading Russian force if necessary with sea power.
BAL+E POL: move in your tanks and inf, make sure not to lose more than 1-2 inf.
KAR: take on turn 2. You need 4-5 inf from BAL to take it.
EGY: crash that Afrika Korps into the Brits, along with inf+tank from France. Italy will mop up the remains, if any.

Next moves: starting moving your inf through Poland. The Russian campaign will be long and tough! Either build a CV and defend the baltic sea or use your navy to attack aggressively vs. UK. KAR and CAU are good targets for the first offensives, neither is directly connected to MOS so once you get them, they can be held and you get two ICs in the East. Expect to take CAU on turn 5 if you play well (counting the movement of that inf stack you bought on turn 1).

[Imperious Leader]

Yes quite right. But also consider elimination of as many ALLIED pieces for as little cost to yourself. I will spend time making adjustments but its important to jump on Russia right away as well as sink UK naval and fix Italy in the medd. I think in 41 the axis can do all these things and get to bonus.

First is immediate attacks, calculate loses, then adjust builds to replace or advance further combat.

Egypt is a must to close the canal as well as Archangel to protect finland and take the AA gun and deny Soviets bonus.

But also UK Gibraltar fleet needs to die as well as the BB/ tranny in labrador. Looking at solutions to get all these done.

[axis_roll]

We’re discussing strategy in a vacuum:  We don’t even have a complete set of the rules (that I know of).

[squirecam]

@axis_roll:

We’re discussing strategy in a vacuum:  We don’t even have a complete set of the rules (that I know of).

You are correct if course. But, whats the harm? Let the kids have a bit of fun speculating. :mrgreen:

[axis_roll]

@squirecam:

@axis_roll:

We’re discussing strategy in a vacuum:  We don’t even have a complete set of the rules (that I know of).

You are correct if course. But, whats the harm? Let the kids have a bit of fun speculating. :mrgreen:

I guess I don’t have all this giddiness that some others do regarding another A&A game.

Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE A&A.  I’m sure the new game will offer some new fun strategies and discussions will abound.  I guess I just don’t have the time for sheer speculation as A&A strategy discussions already are pretty nebulous even WHEN all the rules are known and games have been played to test these strategies.  :|

Sorry if I seem like a wet blanket.  When I get my copy AND play a few games, THEN I can talk to strategies with some certainty.  :-P

[Adlertag]

In my case, I dont post strategies.

It’s as simple as that !

I just dont post strategies.  :cry:

[Imperious Leader]

what we know is the unit values and costs and the set up. We know that SBR is different and it destroys the industrial capacity. WE know something about technology, but on G1 nobody will have it. We know subs cant be sunk w/o a destroyer and that the transports cant be taken as soaker’s ( thank god) and they are useless as defenders. WE know something about bonus IPC paid for conquest ans the importance of taking Archangel because its one of the Soviet Bonus territories.

I think we have a good idea to prepare preliminary ideas for G1 and speculation like squirecam eluded too is a fun thing to do.

[Imperious Leader]

Sealion is possible:

Germany:

3 fighters, 1 bomber, transport picks up (1 tank 1 infantry)= 17 and 6 units against

UK:

2 fighters, 1 bomber, 1 Art, 1 tank, 2 Infantry= 18 and 7 units defending… not really good but possible.

Also heres my 1.1 revision of G1 combats:

Naval combat:

1 bomber
1 fighter ( norway)
1 sub

against UK BB and transport in Labrador

1 sub
2 fighters ( holland and Germany)

against UK CA and DD at Gibraltar ( planes land in Algeria)

1 sub
1fighter

against UK North Sea DD

Land combat:

Baltic States:
Baltic transport picks up 2 Inf from Germany w/ BB SB against Baltic States
plus: 2 infantry, 1 Art, and 2 Tanks

against: 3 Soviet infantry

East Poland:
2 Infantry, 3 tanks

against: 2 Soviet infantry

Ukraine:
3 Infantry, 1 Art, 1 Tank

against: 2 Soviet infantry

NCM:

German transport lands 1 Infantry, 1 tank in Libya

On turn 2 German planes in Algeria in range of Egypt and take it out on turn two.

with this i think German G1 builds ( using 30 IPC base) are:

1 Bomber (13)
4 Infantry (12)-- Need the transports to shuck in Baltic and medd and you cant spare a tank for Africa on turn 2
1 Tank  ( 5)

[Guest]

@Imperious:

Sealion is possible:

Germany:

3 fighters, 1 bomber, transport picks up (1 tank 1 infantry)= 17 and 6 units against

UK:

2 fighters, 1 bomber, 1 Art, 1 tank, 2 Infantry= 18 and 7 units defending… not really good but possible.

Also heres my 1.1 revision of G1 combats:

Naval combat:

1 bomber
1 fighter ( norway)
1 sub

against UK BB and transport in Labrador

1 sub
2 fighters ( holland and Germany)

against UK CA and DD at Gibraltar ( planes land in Algeria)

1 sub
1fighter

against UK North Sea DD

Land combat:

Baltic States:
Baltic transport picks up 2 Inf from Germany w/ BB SB against Baltic States
plus: 2 infantry, 1 Art, and 2 Tanks

against: 3 Soviet infantry

East Poland:
2 Infantry, 3 tanks

against: 2 Soviet infantry

Ukraine:
3 Infantry, 1 Art, 1 Tank

against: 2 Soviet infantry

NCM:

German transport lands 1 Infantry, 1 tank in Libya

On turn 2 German planes in Algeria in range of Egypt and take it out on turn two.

with this i think German G1 builds ( using 30 IPC base) are:

1 Bomber (13)
4 Infantry (12)-- Need the transports to shuck in Baltic and medd and you cant spare a tank for Africa on turn 2
1 Tank  ( 5)

Hmm, let’s see what I can do to that.  Build the UK and US navies to correct force ratio with respect to the Italian Navy.  That adds 2 BB, I carrier with planes, 2 cruisers, and at least 4 destroyers to Home Fleet, and at least 1 sub.  The UK gets at least one more artillery, shore batteries you know, AA gun with Radar, and at least 2 more infantry.  Add one A&A Classic bomber to represent Coastal Command ASW aircraft. May shift one BB to Gibralter force, and add one carrier there, with aircraft.  Due to armored flight decks, UK carriers take two hits from air attact to sink.  British in SZ 15 get at least one sub, and a cruiser and destroyer, plus transport in Red Sea, an Infantry Unit in Ethiopia, and a bomber in Egypt.  Germans in Libya loose the artillery and the infantry, and get another Italian infantry, supply problems you know.  Egypt and Libya each get split into two sections, with German and Italian units in Tripolitania or Cyrenaica and British in Western Desert and Egypt.  Might give the UK another tank there.  Need to think about having fighters get two attacks because of the advantage of Ground Control Radar Intercept if operating in the same territory as an Industrial Center.

US set up.  One BB, one carrier with planes, one cruiser, and probably two destroyers in Atlantic.  If Iceland is on the map, one US infantry in Iceland, along with one fighter and one bomber for ASW patrol.  Need to use a Classic bomber for that.  Need to see exact US set up.  US will automatically get one transport on each coast the first turn.  On Turn 2 and following, the US gets 2 transport and 1 destroyer automatically on each coast, in addition to IPC builds.  On Turn 3 and following, US automatically gets 1 fighter or 1 bomber per turn, US players choice each turn.  Need to compensate for the poor US IPC allowance somehow.  Lend-Lease credits:  UK gets 12 plus a 2D6 roll, along with one destroyer and one transport a turn automatically.  Russia gets 6 plus a 2D6 roll, equipment must be transported to Russia either to Karelia or to Siberia.  Aircraft can be flown via Alaska.  Russia gets a free transport in the Pacific.  US can offer Italian player 12 plus a D6 roll of Lean-Lease credits if he switches sides immediately.  Lend-Lease credits spent in Turn 1 have purchases delivered at the end of the Player’s turn in Turn 2.

The rest of my additions will be dependent on actual set up and starting IPC.  Depending on what is in Panama, may use some Classic units and/or some of my Attack units to represent Panama Canal defenses.  Attack artillery pieces will represent the heavy gun batteries, and attack ships on 4 and defend at 4, heavy caliber guns and very good fire control.  Troops would be 2 Attack artillery pieces, 1 AA gun, 2 fighters, 1 Classic bomber for ASW patrol, and 2 infantry units.  Probably add a sub to that as well.  The US was very sensitive about the Panama Canal.  Units there may not move elsewhere. defenders only.

ASW patrol planes, US and UK only, may attack submarines without a destroyer present, may not be used as regular bombers and may not attack surface combat ships.  May kill transports.

I figure that if Imperious Leader can speculate on Axis strategies, I can speculate on Allied counters, including house rules.

[variant]

timerover51, yes we know, you hate Axis. Why not just add the feature “You win” to the Allies instead of wasting all the time with putting pieces here and there. Whatever you do, your post doesn’t belong in this thread.

[Guest]

Imperious Leader is speculating on Axis strategies.  I do not see why it is inadmissable to speculate on how his strategies may be countered.  He is automatically assuming that the Italian player will do precisely as he is told.  I suspect that Imperious Leader will make sure that he controls both the German and Italian player, which defeats the whole purpose of adding Italy.

[variant]

@timerover51:

Imperious Leader is speculating on Axis strategies.  I do not see why it is inadmissable to speculate on how his strategies may be countered.  He is automatically assuming that the Italian player will do precisely as he is told.  I suspect that Imperious Leader will make sure that he controls both the German and Italian player, which defeats the whole purpose of adding Italy.

Countering is all fine. Adding stupid house rules is completely different.

[Imperious Leader]

Imperious Leader is speculating on Axis strategies.  I do not see why it is inadmissable to speculate on how his strategies may be countered.  He is automatically assuming that the Italian player will do precisely as he is told.  I suspect that Imperious Leader will make sure that he controls both the German and Italian player, which defeats the whole purpose of adding Italy.

Do you not know the German player plays first? You cant counter the opening move. It is not advisable to counter G1 if im the first player.

And i have said nothing about Italy. I am doing Germany which is called G1 for German turn 1.

Read first then comment second.

The basic idea is i am setting up Archangel to fall on G2, to protect my fleets by presenting many targets to UK forcing her to devote her 2 remaining ships and 3 planes to exchange further, and have enough to have another round against the British in Egypt (using the planes in Algeria) and as i said Archangel ( using the planes in Norway).

But for you it would be easier to just remove the axis pieces entirely and ponder how quickly that balancing act makes the game a waste of time.

For we all know the Axis must lose 100% of the time or 1) the game is not historical and 2) the outcome of an axis victory will change history and people begin to disappear… because we changed the spacetime continuum.

[Guest]

I do not recall saying anything about countering Germany’s first move.  I am fully aware that the Germans move first.  The added units go into the set up of the game.  They are there prior to any movement by Germany.  Lend-Lease purchases made in Turn 1 get delivered at the end of the Player’s turn 2.  Most of the UK naval units should be on the table, based on the relationship of forces between the Italian Navy and the Royal Navy.  Both the Royal Navy and US Navy are severely cut in all of the Axis and Allied games, except Pacific.  If they were not, Axis wins would be few and far between.

In the same way, in order to achieve that sacred objective of Play Balance, the ground forces that would have actually been present in the UK, and by now fully reequipped from the Dunkirk experience are heavily reduced, along with no allowance for the literally hundreds of shore batteries and coastal defenses erected by the British in case Sea Lion was actually tried.  Coastal Command was virtually the same size as Bomber Command, but is not reflected in the game.

As for the US Navy, it is reduced to a point where it is ludicrious, again in the name of Play Balance.

As for Italy, the following comments are made in one of your previous posts.  What do you plan on doing if the Italian player decides not to cooperate?

**2 subs in SZ-7 and fighter ( Finland ) attack Uk BB and transport (the Italian fleet will destroy the UK CA and DD off Gibraltar.

ON Italy’s turn they take Jordan with tranny landing 1 inf, 1 tank and 1 fighter against 2 infantry  ( Italian infantry in Libya move up to Egypt. ( now both sides can pass thru canal on second turn)**

And of course, if the Axis had really won WW2, I would not have been born. And many millions more would have died in the death camps and under the tender mercies of the Japanese Army. And how many individuals presently posting to the forum would have been part of those millions?

[Hobbes]

One of the key decisions on G1 will be: where to send the bomber?

1. Send it to attack Egypt, raising the odds of victory to 75%. Because if the amphibious attack by G on Egypt fails to kill the UK fighter then the G transport is automatically killed by the UK fighter during the UK’s turn before Italy’s navy can move to protect it.

2. Send it to Karelia, together with the rest of the Luftwaffe + 5 Inf and 1 Arm.

3. Use it for an attack on any of the UK fleets.

4. SBR Karelia to make Russians pay in case they want to reinforce it

[Romulus]

@timerover51:

And of course, if the Axis had really won WW2, I would not have been born. And many millions more would have died in the death camps and under the tender mercies of the Japanese Army. And how many individuals presently posting to the forum would have been part of those millions?

Without the possibility to read your rule for obtaining “Play Balance”? This is so terrible.

Timerover51, you are posting in each thread regarding Anniversary Edition, and your contribution to the discussion are “balancing rules” that results in “Allies have to win always”. This make the game impossible to play.

Maybe we are not interested in buying a game and then modify it to the point of being not possible to play. If you want to do that, do it with your own copy, win each game with Allies and have fun.

Me and my friends are used to play A&A boardgames, trying to win using brain to think to strategies and moves and not adding units at will. We like a game that is challenging to each other, with the objective of spending time together having quite same posibilities to win. We do not want to change History nor to reply the History moves per moves plying a scripted game.

Note: Edited trying to be more clear.