Unfortunately, I couldn’t find anything from Der Kuenstler. Here is the piece Gen Manstein was talking about:
https://www.historicalboardgaming.com/Atom-Bomb-3D-Printed-x5_p_3707.html
@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
AA gun
C5 M1 D@2 at each plane
Each round?
Return shot for plane?
Major @2
Minor @1
Refineries @2
Resources @1
Oil Derricks @1
These all have built in AA guns
Can’t use AA gun and one of the above
@baron-Münchhausen said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
AA gun
C5 M1 D@2 at each planeEach round?
Return shot for plane?
No but Tac and N Dive can target a AA gun @4
But for the facilities with aa @1 you can forgo the built in AA and use regular AA @2
Air and naval bases have aa @2
I went back and tried to get numbers to work like ships for planes for battles with no planes or one side with planes. I see that the side attacking with planes has a more chance to lose a few from defending AA ship guns with no planes. So I see the attacking ships have to go to one die AD at there normal numbers.
The planes trying to get to work is not gonna work unless I’m missing something.
Attacking planes also have to go to there normal 1 die values with no defending planes in battles. Attacker risks his planes but get higher attack value due to no DF and defending ships get a chance to hit 2 pieces due to AA.
Ships and plane values with one side with planes or no planes in battles.
BB AD@9 1 dam AD@6
CR AD@8
Tac A@6 D@4 pic target
Fig A@6 D@7
N Fig A@6 D@7
N Dive A@6 D@4 pic target
So I have where to remember is if planes on both sides then for BB and CR just substract 3 from normal A and goes too aa gun.
For planes it’s just 1 and 2 for aa
BB A@3 aa plane A@6 ship
CR A@3 aa plane A@5 ship
Tac A@1 aa plane A@5 pick piece return fire
Fig A@2 aa plane A@4 any piece
N fig A@2 aa plane A@4 any piece
N Dive A@1 aa plane A@5 pick piece return fire
I edited the last post.
I did a first round test attack for Ger and UK in my game setup.
This is the results.
Ger attacker UK Defender
1 BB Bismark 3 hits 1 BB
1 CR 1 CR
1 DD 1 DD
3 SS 1 TR
6 Figs 4 Figs scrambled.
Results left
Ger UK
1 SS Nothing
4 Figs
Lose ICP’s Lose ICP’s
1 BB Bismark 30 1 BB 15
1 CR 10 1 CR 10
1 DD 6 1 DD 6
2 SS 14 1 TR 7
2 Figs 20 = 80 icp’s lost 4 Figs 40 = 78 icp’s lost
1 Ger fig killed by UK plane AA 4 UK figs killed by 4 Ger plane AA
1 Ger fig killed by UK BB AA
Both sides had thee option of retreating there planes after first round but did not.
UK was hoping to get more than 1 plane kill but just got the 1 with BB and
there figs got nothing.
Ger got 4 plane AA kills. Even with the lower ship A&D rolls
where good for both sides. So if not for that the battle would of went a few more rounds
of combat. As for no DF now the Ger Figs would of probably killed 1- 4 UK figs
anyway in the DF. UK 4 figs may have gotten 2 ger figs in DF but the Ship AA helped
with there figs only getting 1 Ger fig kill with AA.
Also what helps is by using a different colored AA gun to represent the plane and ships
AA shots they receive per round on the combat board. What I’m saying is for Germany they had 2 Ship AA shots at @3 and 6 planes AA shots @2.
So with a Red AA gun place 2 grey chips under AA gun and place in Column 2 on Battle board and place 1 Red AA gun with a red chip and 1 grey chip under it and place in column 3 on battle board. This shows you how many AA shots you get at planes.
Then place your ships in the correct columns with values and your figs also.
Its easier to roll for your AA shots first. No need to roll 2 different dice at a time.
Now Baron is this still work for you ?
I know the thrill is throwing 2 dice but with AA being in correct battle board columns its a lot easier and faster this way when rolling dice.
I can see more planes maybe getting killed in bigger naval battles here. But then you have the option of scrambling 1 plane from another AB within any territory or land and only for now in game ( this may go up if more planes are added to game or if planes become cheaper ) and besides you can retreat your planes and then your ships go to max values on attacks with just ship battles. The other question is if only one side brings planes his ships will be weaker on the attack and even with defending ships but now the defender has the option of killing some of your planes. There’s more of a trade off here going on too. But also can the defender afford to have no air cover because now fig and Tac planes go to there Max A&D values due to no defending plane fights.
This is where Barons idea of cheaper planes may come in with lower A&D values. But you should always have planes for A&D any way. I also can see a Territory with a resource on it having a fig defending it.
All kinds of stuff going on here.
F in thing wouldn’t let me write both on same line spaced out . GDMit.
Hope you can follow. Left side Ger pieces right side UK pieces. I ain’t retyping this.
Also I’m thinking of dropping all planes costs for Tac, Dive and both Figs to 9.
I do have Tech in game where if you get it you have a 33% chance of your planes costing 1 icp less for a cost of 8.
But I think the Tac and Dive Bombers if they can pic tsrget now should go to
A@1 aa plane A@4 pick target return shot.
D@1 aa plane D@3 pick target with return
No planes in fight
A@5 pick target with return shot
D@4 pick target with return shot
Savedsaved
My only real concern is with one side attacking with planes and ships against a defending side with just ships will the attacking side wipe out defender to fast? Due to planes and ships attacking at max values against a defending weaker ships with aa shots.
So do we just leave all planes and ships with the lower values with aa values even though there’s no planes on one side ? Or no planes period in battles so it’s not overkill and easier to remember values not changing to max values.
But I can see these pieces staying at lower values due to having aa capability and losing a turret or two in space so they shouldn’t get max AD values. This the only hangup I got. Lower values be longer battles. But would it be fairer to the side with no planes ? But that’s why u have cheaper destroyers with fleets with no air support in game to absorb hits if u lack planes or not.
But then it’s mostly going to affect just naval battles and this will make islands in pacific with AB more important with figs on them and keeping your fleets from being out in the wide open and closer to these islands for air protection. This is where or why there were so many escort carriers in war.
I think it will be fine. You bring a fleet in wide open seas better have air support with it.
Now that I think about it we will keep it as is. Remember destroyers also block ships 1-3
And as we know you must always have destroyers for 1. Subs 2. Fodder and cheap hits 3. Block ships.
2 destroyers can block 6 ships so there’s no way just attacker going to send in planes against a fleet with destroyers and a BB and 2 CR they get aa support plus destroyers absorb hits. Fricken awesome.
I think this would work with d6 system with a few changes.
Give figs and BB CR aa @1
Tac stg bombers for every 2 planes aa @1 ?
Reduce the AD values also same time
Make destroyers cheaper in cost
But of course I don’t like 1 destroyer stopping a whole fleet !!!
I did 2 more test battles and god dam I keep dicing the other side with aa plane kills @2. It’s not even the ship aa @3
Never happens for me in a game.
Now I’m lookin at ship aa @2
? Crap is Killin me. Did have one side not get a kill so the battle flip the other way and seems to make closer piece totals in battles can go one way and then next round other way and then normal way. Oh man “The Wayouts” !!!
Got 2 games this weekend and I’m flipping out ! Lol. Just don’t want it to screw things up but it’s not really that bad. I just don’t want over kill in planes. But I’m waiting on group guys for there opinions yet. Vote so far 2-0 for it.
@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
…You bring a fleet in wide open seas better have air support with it.
H Yea ! :+1:
@SS-GEN
yea diggin this. Looks real good. I had a software issue thats taken my time, but just started another test game.
G40 D6 . D 12 is the way to go for sure :) but baby steps here : )
Added a couple more Blockade Zones and a Convoy that hits Scotland
Is this on triple A ?
Well I got a couple of group players not yet on board with this new BB CR and plane vs plane idea. Kinda saying it’s getting to complexion now.
@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
I did 2 more test battles and god dam I keep dicing the other side with aa plane kills @2. It’s not even the ship aa @3
Never happens for me in a game.
Now I’m lookin at ship aa @2
? Crap is Killin me. Did have one side not get a kill so the battle flip the other way and seems to make closer piece totals in battles can go one way and then next round other way and then normal way. Oh man “The Wayouts” !!!
Got 2 games this weekend and I’m flipping out ! Lol. Just don’t want it to screw things up but it’s not really that bad. I just don’t want over kill in planes. But I’m waiting on group guys for there opinions yet. Vote so far 2-0 for it.
Many things and options going on as I see.
What makes interesting a special AA roll is that aircraft are costlier than DD, Subs and TPs.
Otherwise it is less relevant to have a special roll if the first casualty oin order is a cheaper aircraft.
It is interesting to consider a small roll @2 for Fg and Cruiser and BB while the other dice is treated normally.
When there is no aircraft, you don’t roll this AA roll and there is no rising up of the regular roll.
Less to remember. Bombers can be a minimal roll @1.
You may even think about it in the other direction.
Keeping all Fg and TcB at C10 but with an additional AA roll each round if enemy’s plane are present.
《The plane numbers will not be used yet. Tweaking those as of now. Each ship and plane piece rolls 2 dice with different colors.
D12 system
BB C15 AD@2 plane & AD@8 ship
1 damage AD@2 Plane & AD@4 ship
CR C10 AD@2 plane & AD@7 ship
AC C15 D@3 plane only. 1 dam D@2 plane only
EC C8 D@3 plane only
Tac C10 A@1 plane & A@5 pick target
D@1 plane & D@5 pick target
Dive C10 A@1 plane & A@5 pick target
D@1 plane & D@4 pick target
Fig C10 A@2 plane & A@5 ship or ground
D@2 plane & D@6 ship or ground
N Fig C10 A@2 plane & A@4 ship or ground
D@2 plane & D@6 ship or ground
Ok. There is no dog fighting now. So each plane gets a plane shot. I kept the number 1 less to see if it’s ok. Worried about over kill and have not added any planes to setup.》
Right. My thought was to lower AA shot @2 which I posted above and whether or not to use the same numbers for ships and planes if they did’nt have an AA shot due to no planes in a battle. So here is my 2 options to go with. I’ll leave it up to group what they want to do. Me personally would do it all with option also with lower plane costs but that is a whole new topic to discuss and dissect.
@baron-Münchhausen said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
I did 2 more test battles and god dam I keep dicing the other side with aa plane kills @2. It’s not even the ship aa @3
Never happens for me in a game.
Now I’m lookin at ship aa @2
? Crap is Killin me. Did have one side not get a kill so the battle flip the other way and seems to make closer piece totals in battles can go one way and then next round other way and then normal way. Oh man “The Wayouts” !!!
Got 2 games this weekend and I’m flipping out ! Lol. Just don’t want it to screw things up but it’s not really that bad. I just don’t want over kill in planes. But I’m waiting on group guys for there opinions yet. Vote so far 2-0 for it.Many things and options going on as I see.
What makes interesting a special AA roll is that aircraft are costlier than DD, Subs and TPs.
Otherwise it is less relevant to have a special roll if the first casualty oin order is a cheaper aircraft.It is interesting to consider a small roll @2 for Fg and Cruiser and BB while the other dice is treated normally.
When there is no aircraft, you don’t roll this AA roll and there is no rising up of the regular roll.
Less to remember. Bombers can be a minimal roll @1.You may even think about it in the other direction.
Keeping all Fg and TcB at C10 but with an additional AA roll each round if enemy’s plane are present.《The plane numbers will not be used yet. Tweaking those as of now. Each ship and plane piece rolls 2 dice with different colors.
D12 system
1. BB C15 AD@2 plane & **AD@8 **ship
1 damage AD@2 Plane & AD@4 ship
CR C10 AD@2 plane & AD@7 ship
AC C15 D@3 plane only. 1 dam D@2 plane only
EC C8 D@3 plane only WITH 1 ROUND OF DOG FIGHTING ONLY1-2. Tac C10 A@1 plane & A@5 pick target
D@1 plane & D@5 pick target
Dive C10 A@1 plane & A@5 pick target
D@1 plane & D@4 pick target
Fig C10 A@2 plane & A@5 ship or ground
D@2 plane & D@6 ship or ground
N Fig C10 A@2 plane & A@4 ship or ground
D@2 plane & D@6 ship or groundOk. There is no dog fighting now. So each plane gets a plane shot. I kept the number 1 less to see if it’s ok. Worried about over kill and have not added any planes to setup.》
OK I put the number next to the 2 lists above. Option 1 is probably best for now with
group. Option 1-2 will let them know about now that the numbers don’t drop with no
planes in the battles or if one side has planes they don’t have the stronger ship attacks with planes.
@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
Right. My thought was to lower AA shot @2 which I posted above and whether or not to use the same numbers for ships and planes if they did’nt have an AA shot due to no planes in a battle. So here is my 2 options to go with. I’ll leave it up to group what they want to do. Me personally would do it all with option also with lower plane costs but that is a whole new topic to discuss and dissect.
I see the two options you developed.
My suggestion is a subsection of one of them to keep an higher regular roll and high cost at 10.
Basically, in principle, you can imagine that you use the old values when you once only roll 1 dice with no special attribute, then each aircraft, Cruiser and Battleship get an additional AA dice at low odds (@1 or @2) when enemy’s aircraft are present, for as long as they are part of combat. Of course, there is room to tweak values here and there.
The special cases are Escort and Fleet Carriers which have no regular combat dice but get @3 as long as enemy’s plane are present.
The aircraft attrition can probably be manage somehow, but you have to see a few playtests to analyse impact on strategies or tactics and find different way to deal with it, IMO.