Guys, there’s no “pact” outside of Russia not being able to declare war on Germany or Italy until turn 4 UNLESS they were attacked by either power first. Molotov-Ribbentrop isn’t really a thing in this game.
Germany is not declaring war on Russia (or “violating the pact” call it what you wish) as they did not attack Russia, but Russia is free to declare war on Germany on their turn as they are now at war with Italy. That means no more German objective after the first Eastern Poland move.
The rules have been stated many times over, by regular members and official rules deputies alike, and they are clear. Obviously there is nothing stopping you from playing a different way in your personal games, the A&A Police will not knock down your door and arrest you. However, you are not going to change rules that have stood for years by arguing this over and over again.
Amalec….play Russia here…you are the Russian player facing this scenario…German movement into your territory is a friendly act when especially you are allied to the Italians? You would consider this friendly or aggressive movement by the Germans…considering you are now not being allowed to attack the Italians by your presence? WITH ABSOLUTELY no repercussions…and to boot collecting bonus income on a PACT you signed
Amalec….play Russia here…you are the Russian player facing this scenario…German movement into your territory is a friendly act when especially you are allied to the Italians? You would consider this friendly or aggressive movement by the Germans…considering you are now not being allowed to attack the Italians by your presence? WITH ABSOLUTELY no repercussions…and to boot collecting bonus income on a PACT you signed
Sure, it makes no sense. It’s also makes no sense for the German air force to, entirely on it’s own, wipe out a half dozen infantry divisions in Alexandria, but that’s the game we’re playing. It’s not a simulation.
You can keep saying PACT in all caps if you like, but the game mechanics do not recognize it the you think they should. As has been said: the rules are clear and established. I’ve done what I can to help you understand them, but this has turned into a pointless argument.
Worse yet is if Russia decides to hold it’s line at Bryansk you can make this move one more time into Western Ukraine because Italy takes it….Germans don’t DOW and non combat move again and another 5 IPC bonus
Ummm dude why would you not just declare war on Germany on Russias turn negating their +5 bonus and activating your NO bonuses! Eureka! Problem solved. The rules are pretty clear on what you can and cannot do. Yes its a cheesy loophole move that Italy and Germany can do once unless you do not declare war on Germany at turn 4. (which I’m not sure why you wouldn’t want to) Is your end game that you do not like the move? I get it house rule it out, but the rules allow it as is and its been illustrated many times by people here showing you specific passages in the rule book backing up their claim. You however keep throwing out terms and ideas that are either not in the rulebook or you have a misunderstanding of what the terms mean and are defined by in this game. There is no pact with specific conditions between Russia and Germany. There is a national objective Germany achieves by not being at war with Russia period! No unit locations or map position or political situations between other powers affects this. It is simply are you at war with Russia? No +5 , Yes no bonus.
Elsass-Lorraine
I’ve been playing AA since 86
after 5 games of first edition we house ruled the game…2010 2nd edition…same thing…house ruled it…2013 we shelved it for HBG Global 39…Global 36 came out…tougher time to find players…I am creating a hybrid game taking the best of all 3 games to mesh it into 1
I just recently started playing AA G 40 so I could play at YGs tournament
AA G 40 is a great game but it is broken…Destroyers and Bombers overpowered…political situations idiotic in my opinion
Most broken are Russia…Italy and the UK Navy…awful representation of them
My games all Military Veterans and historical buffs of WW ll…we changed it up
An example…my Tankograd…Russia may purchase 2 tanks for 4 IPC’s and immediately place them on the board and combat or non combat move them on that turn
Russia has heavy tank…only country with them…Germans SP’s…Italians Berseglieri Infantry and TB DD…US AA destroyers…China Cavalry…Japan Escort carriers…Brits Battle cruisers…2 hits to destroy…Anzac Coast Watchers and special Naval Tac / Torpedo bombers that can convoy and target select ships…French Colonial Infantry that you roll a 1 you place an Infantry into a territory you own…this is my simple one…then I have mega complicated rules
Elsass-Lorraine
I’ve been playing AA since 86
after 5 games of first edition we house ruled the game…2010 2nd edition…same thing…house ruled it…2013 we shelved it for HBG Global 39…Global 36 came out…tougher time to find players…I am creating a hybrid game taking the best of all 3 games to mesh it into 1
I just recently started playing AA G 40 so I could play at YGs tournament
AA G 40 is a great game but it is broken…Destroyers and Bombers overpowered…political situations idiotic in my opinion
Most broken are Russia…Italy and the UK Navy…awful representation of themMy games all Military Veterans and historical buffs of WW ll…we changed it up
An example…my Tankograd…Russia may purchase 2 tanks for 4 IPC’s and immediately place them on the board and combat or non combat move them on that turn
Russia has heavy tank…only country with them…Germans SP’s…Italians Berseglieri Infantry and TB DD…US AA destroyers…China Cavalry…Japan Escort carriers…Brits Battle cruisers…2 hits to destroy…Anzac Coast Watchers and special Naval Tac / Torpedo bombers that can convoy and target select ships…French Colonial Infantry that you roll a 1 you place an Infantry into a territory you own…this is my simple one…then I have mega complicated rules
I was gonna mention this to you on the phone. 90% of 40oob players dont want the changes and nothing new to game. Theres a lot fantasy rules in game also. Just sayin
And by the way my 40 game is like what your trying to do with your game. Combine like 4 different games in it with as much historical stuff as possible without unbalancing the game.
SS
Yeah….I know…to many this is a strategy game…to me this is a WW ll game
I even have Merrill’s Marauders and Chindits in my game…lol…and Engineers
No Engineer No factory buy…you can’t build it without engineers
I even have supplies and Fuel rules…my war is both a tactical war and a strategic war…Bombers have been neutered…DD blockers…huh…what’s that?..lol my blockers are called screens…no puny DD is going to stop a fleet…that was one of the first changes we made…we all laughed at that one
Bombers are vital…but they will never be the key instrument to win a tactical battle…glory has gone to the Tac bomber
plus…I play D-12 system
Elsass-Lorraine
I’ve been playing AA since 86
after 5 games of first edition we house ruled the game…2010 2nd edition…same thing…house ruled it…2013 we shelved it for HBG Global 39…Global 36 came out…tougher time to find players…I am creating a hybrid game taking the best of all 3 games to mesh it into 1
I just recently started playing AA G 40 so I could play at YGs tournament
AA G 40 is a great game but it is broken…Destroyers and Bombers overpowered…political situations idiotic in my opinion
Most broken are Russia…Italy and the UK Navy…awful representation of themMy games all Military Veterans and historical buffs of WW ll…we changed it up
An example…my Tankograd…Russia may purchase 2 tanks for 4 IPC’s and immediately place them on the board and combat or non combat move them on that turn
Russia has heavy tank…only country with them…Germans SP’s…Italians Berseglieri Infantry and TB DD…US AA destroyers…China Cavalry…Japan Escort carriers…Brits Battle cruisers…2 hits to destroy…Anzac Coast Watchers and special Naval Tac / Torpedo bombers that can convoy and target select ships…French Colonial Infantry that you roll a 1 you place an Infantry into a territory you own…this is my simple one…then I have mega complicated rules
Glad to hear that you understand how house rules work. But they’re called house rules for a reason: They apply uniquely and singularly to your group. That means, when you are playing with other people, such as at events like YG’s tournament, you play by the letter of the original rulebook (or whatever rules are played at that event).
Like I said, you are more than welcome to house rule the game (which you have) and then go talk about your house rules in the House Rules forum.
This forum is for people who play Axis and Allies Global 1940 by the rule book, that’s why there is a separate one for house rules. Let me reiterate: The rules surrounding your situation have been completely and clearly explained by multiple people. The rules are not changing anytime soon either, and definitely not for a fringe issue such as this.
You asked about a rule, we told you about a rule. It’s pointless to deny rules that are clearly written in the rulebook and even nicely brought together and tied up with a bow for you by rules deputies and various others.
Let me end with saying that I mean none of this maliciously. Good luck with your future games of A&A, HBG36/39, or whatever hybrid game you come up with. :-)
@Elsass-Lorraine:
Like I said, you are more than welcome to house rule the game (which you have) and then go talk about your house rules in the House Rules forum.
This forum is for people who play Axis and Allies Global 1940 by the rule book, that’s why there is a separate one for house rules. Let me reiterate: The rules surrounding your situation have been completely and clearly explained by multiple people. The rules are not changing anytime soon either, and definitely not for a fringe issue such as this.
Ok, who wins the pool on how long it take for me to say that Balanced Mode is also house rules?
:-D
Marsh
SS
Yeah….I know…to many this is a strategy game…to me this is a WW ll game
I even have Merrill’s Marauders and Chindits in my game…lol…and Engineers
No Engineer No factory buy…you can’t build it without engineers
I even have supplies and Fuel rules…my war is both a tactical war and a strategic war…Bombers have been neutered…DD blockers…huh…what’s that?..lol my blockers are called screens…no puny DD is going to stop a fleet…that was one of the first changes we made…we all laughed at that one
Bombers are vital…but they will never be the key instrument to win a tactical battle…glory has gone to the Tac bomber
plus…I play D-12 system
Ha ha. The last half of your message is what I have but rest is going deep.
Elsass-Lorraine
The topic….I am standing by my thoughts and opinions…when I play…AA G 40…I know what the rule is…but that doesn’t change the fact that I strongly feel those rules do not apply to this scenario…they just don’t,they are not covered because of the pact and non DOW by both Germany and Italy…this is a chicken pooh pooh that often ruins a game in progress
Loopholes like this must be eliminated in a rule book…this scenario is not in AA rule books…you say Potato I say Patato…I read the rules many times and disagree with anyone who agrees with those rules…this rule is a perception…not concrete…too much left to assumption
this thread again was 3 fold…it achieved it’s desired purposes and to boot it was a great conversation with you folks
Thank you all who have responded…
Semper Fi
“No German units in originally Russians controlled territories without DOW”
This should not be a house rule. This is common sense and should be in the rule book.
Yeah yeah yeah it’s not there but neither are sharks with laser beams attached to their heads.
Roger that Kreghund
I am going to let the cat out of the bag now
This thread is 3 fold
before I start this occurred in one of my games at YG’s tournament and General Hand grenade told us the rule, so I knew the rule
Desert Admiral and I spoke today and wanted clarification and since I had the time I posted this…
Before posting I realized since I am giving my opinions to Young Grasshopper for his deluxe edition game, that rules need to be black and white…not having to go to this section or that section to find technicalities
3rd Siredblood and I are close friends as well so to help his tournament this would benefit him as well…in fact been talking to Siredblood all day about this…I am also giving opinions and suggestions for his tournament…ie the Cavalry units and lend lease to China which will be a rule in the tournament and a few more concepts as well
Siredblood is making a card for this rule as well
hopefully those who have struggled with this strategy, now they are clear
I stand by my feelings that the rules do not clearly answer this scenario properly and perception is what drives what can and can not be done. I read this totally different than what Kreighund states…not arguing with him but I can rebuttal the heck out of it. Reason is technicalities…you have to go to different sections of the rule book to get the answer for a scenario that rules you look at are vastly different.
Logic is easy Russia gets attacked they have every right to get that territory back and rule states Russia may declare war against an Axis power…Singular so both Germans and Russians did not declare war the Germans become insignificant.
Easy fix is any Germans in Russian territories while not at war negates the 5 IPC Bonus that Germany is due
Hopefully Desert Admiral and Sired don’t change the rules regarding game mechanics just because you don’t like them. It’s one thing to change the victory conditions or NO’s in order to balance the game for a tournament, but to change the game mechanics leaves no room to then call it an Axis and Allies tournament. The game is what it is regardless of your opposition to the rules of the game. You are confusing the rules of other games with the rules of Axis and Allies. The are no pacts in the game of Axis and Allies. If Germany’s NO was a pact then Russia would have to get some benefit from it. They don’t. Germany get 5 IPC’s, Russia gets dick. It’s not a pact it’s a NO. You were wrong on the first page of this thread and you’ve been wrong on every page since then. If this thread goes 50 pages and you still claim that you’re right then you’ll be wrong on the 50th page of the thread as well.
You claim over and over again that it’s all different because it is part of Russia. It isn’t. It is now and always has been a part of the nation of Poland. Russia had occupied it at the time that this game begins. In your game Italy then occupied it. The rules state clearly that if you want to take it back then you have to declare war on the forces that occupy it. You chose not to because you wanted to play it like a different game and not like Axis and Allies. You can attack a sea zone like that but you can’t attack a land territory like that. That is the mechanics of Axis and Allies. Yes, they are stated quite clearly.
Sorry Dude, you can’t win this argument no matter how long this thread lasts. By all means keep it up though, it’s quite entertaining to read.
Cheers GHG
I am not confusing nothing….from this game to that game
Rule is broken…period…it is left to interpretation…dude
Scenario negates the rule book because there is no clarification …
As far as Siredblood…it’s his tournament and his rules…not mine…his idea and he is running with it
Locke888
Some people like simple some like complex….some like logic some like regimented rules
I agree with you…some are now calling it a National objective…I read it as non aggression pact in a political situation and that action is AGGRESSION. What I do know is I am not wrong…nor are people who agree with this move…this rule is simply left to interpretation…that’s all there is to it
No coincidence that there are so many house rules…why are they there? Because it is a great game and it has flaws and mistakes and rules that are not clear. I bet you there is not a player who plays this game who has not sat there and looked at a rule to go from section to section to get a clarification for at least 10 minutes during a game.
As for logic…if you are playing strategists…throw that out of the window…if you are playing historical folks…you can get somewhere…and then there is the in between and there you negotiate
