Thank you for responding! Sorry.
Russia Question
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Italians attack Russia, Germany is automatically at war with Russia, that is the assumption that my group has always used.
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Another thing to remember is that Italy can-opening for Germany doesn’t stop Russia from declaring war on Germany and punching the Germans in the mouth (emphasis added):
The Political Situation
The Soviet Union
The Soviet Union begins the game at war with no one.
{snip}
As a result, the Soviet Union may not declare war on any Axis power before its fourth turn unless an Axis power declares war on it first. However, if London is captured by an Axis power, the Soviet Union may declare war on its following turn.But you must declare war on Germany before you can attack a territory with German units inside.
-Midnight_Reaper
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The neutral rule can not apply here
those neutral rules are not considering a state of war between 2 countries with a neutral country occupying
this predicament is no where to be found as those neutral rules apply ONLY to peaceful countries and territories
This is NOT the same situation
those rules are not applicable here….if you read carefully no where is there an explanation for a territory at war…all explanations are for territories at peace
This hypothetical territory is at war -
Russia did in fact make it clear to Germany that it is not declaring war on Germany and attacking a hostile zone with a declared state of war with Italy
Russia hence MAY ignore German units
territory is already hostile
This scenario can not be found in the rule book
Rule book only identifies peaceful territories ONLY, remember this is now a hostile territory
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Russia can attack a Russian territory that has been captured. If the Germans move into that territory, after being captured, I think the assumption would be that they have also declared war on Russia.
If The Italians captured a Russian territory, and Germany did not go on a full blown offensive on their next turn, and instead decided to consolidate to the Italian captured territory, what would the purpose of this be? Show the Russians and ultimately the Allies exactly what direction you are going, and take it slow? Doesn’t make sense. And furthermore, the rules don’t make it very clear, but if the Italians attack the Russians and take a territory, and the Germans occupy it, that is a declaration of war. Total war in Europe begins.
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No Tambo…Germans did not declare war on Russia and non combat moved into the territory to continue getting the 5 IPC bonus for not at war with Russia
Russia then did not declare war on Germany in return and attacked the Italian units and regained the 1 IPC loss
Germany was entitled to get the 5 IPC bonus
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Russia was now at war and allowed to gain their bonus income
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Marshmallow of War, Midnight_Reaper, and P@nther are correct. TripleA is handling this situation incorrectly.
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Those who disagree….show me the rule…I have read said rule and this scenario is no where to be found
I want this enigmatic paradigm answered for when I play among my friends
As I read it…this is a legal Russian move…undetermined by the rules
All rules say Powers not at war…meaning peaceful territory
This territory is at warShow me the rule not your perception of the rule and I am not saying this in arrogance or by being a butt-head…I want this rule to be clear with me
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Those who disagree….show me the rule…I have read said rule and this scenario is no where to be found
Midnight Reaper did quote the rule in like the 3rd post.
Pg 14 (from my Pacific 2nd edition book)
blow up box in top left corner:“Powers Not at War with One Another”
3rd paragraph
Combat: A power can’t attack a territory controlled by or containing units belonging to a power with which it is not at war. -
I’ve been quoting from the rule book. Read the “The Political Situation” section, “The Soviet Union” subsection, on page 9 and “Powers Not at War with One Another” section on page 15, from the Europe 1940 rule book. That’s where you will find what we’ve been quoting to you.
-Midnight_Reaper
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Those rules do not apply in this scenario
The Soviet Union was attacked by Italy….both Germany and Russia did not declare war with each other on their turns
That territory is AT WAR
That territory is a Russian territory
Powers not at war applies to say Sweden…this is not the case
I have read these rules over and over and over and none are applicable to this scenario…NONE
Again…this was an originally controlled Russian territory…2 Italy declared war…Germany did not…Russia ONLY declared war on Italy and did not with the Germans and in fact Germans made sure not to declare war on Russia to collect it’s bonus
Folks…the rules do not indicate how to handle this properly
Based on what I read this makes it a legal Russian move
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In fact Russian and Germans are actually friendly Neutrals in this scenario
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Those rules do not apply in this scenario
Then which rules would apply? The rule books for Global 1940 are Europe 1940 and Pacific 1940. I’m quoting right out of the Europe 1940 rule book. If the rules from Europe 1940 don’t apply, which ones do?
The Soviet Union was attacked by Italy….both Germany and the USSR did not declare war with each other on their turns
True. Italy attacked the Soviets. And Germany is not required to declare war on the USSR just because Italy did.
That territory is AT WAR
Yes, it is. All of the territories in the USSR are at war with Italy once Italy declares war.
That territory is a Russian territory
No, it’s not. It was once Russian but once Italy took it from the USSR it became Italian territory.
Powers not at war applies to say Sweden….this is not the case
If the Power of Germany and the Power of the USSR aren’t at war, which rules would apply? If they are at War, then we have no reason to discuss this, so I would figure those rules would apply in this case.
I have read these rules over and over and over and none are applicable to this scenario….NONE
I can’t help that. All I can do is explain the rules as I see them.
Again….this was an originally controlled Russian territory…2 Italy declared war…Germany did not…Russia ONLY declared war on Italy and did not with the Germans and in fact Germans made sure not to declare war on Russia to collect it’s bonus
To break this down: Yes, East Poland was held by the USSR at the start of the game. Italy did declare war. Germany did not declare war. The USSR is at war with Italy and not (yet) at war with Germany. Germany tried to pull a fast one by reinforcing the Italian territory of East Poland without further insults to the dignity of the USSR. Germany was eligible to collect its bonus.
Folks….the rules do not indicate how to handle this properly
Sure the rules do: Either declare war on Germany and attack both the German and the Italian defenders of the Italian territory of East Poland or leave it alone.
Based on what I read this makes it a legal Russian move
The only way you can retreat, according to the rules, is to combat move into an attack and then to call off said attack. Defenders don’t retreat. Full Stop. So, you have two legal moves when it comes to East Poland - declare war on Germany and attack both the German and the Italian defenders of East Poland, or leave them be.
Although, perhaps what you should be thinking about is how everybody else in this forum, to include official rule moderators, are all saying the same things. Either everyone else is wrong or you have misunderstood the rules and then dug in your heels when corrected. But when Krieghund thinks you’ve misunderstood a rule, then you’ve misunderstood a rule.
My 2 IPCs
-Midnight_Reaper
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Midnight reaper
Italy owns East Poland……Russia is attacking a territory that belonged to them…you are indicating territories like Sweden with your rules that are in the book and which I have read over and over and over…this is not the case
Germany and Russia are Friendly Neutrals
If Germany goes into Finland…they collect the income and the Infantry
Only difference here is Russia may not turn the German units into Russian…but it sure can collect the IPC lost and give the option of a German withdrawal or a deceleration of war by GermanyPeople can be wrong…I am not saying I am right or wrong…I am saying the rules in the book do not apply here because so many things are different here than say Bulgaria or Sweden or Yugoslavia
reading the rules…I can not find where this is an illegal move because it is not indicated or specified
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That territory is AT WAR
Territories cannot be at war. Only powers can be at war. Search the rules - you won’t find a reference to “at war” that is applied to anything other than a power.
That territory is a Russian territory
It was originally (and will be again, if liberated) - for now it’s Italian.
Powers not at war applies to say Sweden….this is not the case
Sweden is not a power - it’s a territory. The powers in the game are the United States, the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, ANZAC, China, France, Germany, Italy, and Japan. The rules Midnight_Reaper quoted are titled “Powers Not at War with One Another”. In your example, Germany and the USSR fit that description.
I have read these rules over and over and over and none are applicable to this scenario….NONE
Please read them again with the above in mind. They should make more sense. I hope this helps.
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Germany and Russia are Friendly Neutrals
They are not. The term “friendly neutral” (or “unfriendly neutral”) can only apply to a territory, not a power. Powers are only neutral when they are at war with no one. Once they’re at war with any power, they’re no longer neutral. They can, however, be not yet at war with a power on the other side, which is where Germany and the USSR find themselves in your scenario.
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Turn 1 no JDOW….US moves Philippines fleet into 54 with ANZAC fleet…ANZAC declare war turn 1…turn 2 Japanese attack SZ 54…but will only fight the ANZAC fleet not the combined fleet…it’s the same thing except on land
semantics on power and territory when it comes to East Poland
East Poland is a territory occupied by a combat won by Italians
Germany and Russia are Powers not at warRussian political situation says an Axis power (singular)
East Poland is Italian and at war with Italy German troops are only visitors…they have no significance to the territory
Russia is allowed to combat the ItaliansTheoretically Germany may allow Russians to stage in Romania so they can attack Yugoslavia because it became an Italian territory turn 1
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Leather. Look at it this way. I do see your point. Dont know if Rule apples to a sea zone. But if UK is at war with Germany and US is not at war with Germany but both allies navy is in same sea zone. Germany attacks UK only because US not at war with Germany so now Germany wins sea battle and now you have 2 countries in same sea zone that can look at each other.
I see your point with ground territory. But u are not really contesting Italy. You are contesting the territory. So basically you cannot Attack Italy alone because then you would have 2 countries controlling 1 territory. Yes your point is Germany should have to retreat. But they dont so you got to attack both for control of territory.
Been many complaints over the years with some rules conflict with one another and not clarify with updated rules.Ok to stay in same sea zone but not a land territory. Just right that in rules.
Or better yet Italy loses territory and icps but now nobody controls East Poland but now u force Germany to declare war if they want territory or leave or just do nothing and now force Russia to do something on there turn.
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SS
Yeah…I mean how many bennies does Germany need as Russia keeps getting neutered?
My point to this thread is…this is NOT covered in the rule book
People are responding based on perception as am I…you say tomato I say thamato…lol
Those who wrote the rules probably never anticipated this happening
Just like Taranto Raid was probably never anticipated so the Italian set up is idiotic in my opinionAs stated by many, this game needs a deluxe edition as YG calls it (and I love the name) and a Global rule book of it’s own
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