There was a lot of back stabbing going on in WWII. Hitler did it to Stalin, Franco backed out on Hitler, England walk out on France(although forced). I don’t see how you could hold any merit for any of the treaties or agreements of the time. They weren’t worth the paper they were written on. If Japan hadn’t bitten off more then they could chew with the US they could have attacked Russia’s back door at any time. I’m still not sure why they nailed Pearl. I guess they thought they could scare us into signing some type of agreement allowing them to do as they pleased in the Pacific as long as they left us alone. The Tripartite Pact also guaranteed that Germany and Italy would join in against the US (another deterrent aimed at keeping the US from declaring war). Boy that backfired, now Roosevelt had the ammo he needed.
When this game starts the US is not at war. Hitler felt he would be parading through Moscow by late fall of 1941, just as he did in Paris in the spring of 1940. If Hitler could have got Japan to attack Russia’s back door around the time of Barbarossa (a double back stabbing on Stalin) Hitler might have got his parade. There were open talks of Japan ending its nonaggression pact with Russia, because of the Tripartite Pact it had prior with Germany. Japan instead decided to go after the Euro colonies in the Pacific and invite the US into the war.
This game starts before all this. You as ruler of Japan can do what ever you want especially the first couple rounds. In the global game if you want to attack Siberia then as Tiger Woods would say “just do it!”
I would think that in the global game a Japanese attack on Russia would not bring the US into the war, just as attacking China won’t.
Keep in mind Tanks cost 6 IPC now. Razor hardly doubt Japan will try Tank Push Mechanic in this edition.
That’s a good point Raztag, WB thinks that a Jap push through India would be better. Kill 2 birds 1 stone that way. Now you have an IC closer to pump out cheaper units to really stick the Caucaus. That will tie up Russia enough for Germany to sack Moscow. You will have to make good def against USA though or they will kick your a$$.
Japan could not get to Moscow if Stalin gave them a ride on the Trans Siberian railway.
It was not feasible and Japan had no claims to anything remotely more than a replay of 1904-5 and the area relating to that. Japan would never attack China, USA, and USSR at the same time and could not address any of her claims for resources with some attack against the Soviet border.
There is nothing of value for Japan in that part of Russia, except the coastal areas.
If Japan could not get farther than basically the coast of China in 10 years of fighting, how do they even conceive of attacking and holding any more of Russia?
This is not even possible and should not be possible in a game that has anything to do with reality.
On another note: Hopefully this global game will return AA to a social multiplayer environment and no more of the ‘one guy playing 3-4 sides thing’
@Imperious:
On another note: Hopefully this global game will return AA to a social multiplayer environment and no more of the ‘one guy playing 3-4 sides thing’
Only an individual victory condition will make that happen.
yes thats true.
@Imperious:
On another note: Hopefully this global game will return AA to a social multiplayer environment and no more of the ‘one guy playing 3-4 sides thing’
Do you really think their will be individual vicotry in the global game? I would think larry would have talked more about that.
it seems like a great concept.
I think it will already be more social/manyplayer oriented since their are so many units and space for one person to think about.
I look at A&A as a 2 player game so I couldn’t care less about an individual country being the winner.
@Brain:
I look at A&A as a 2 player game so I couldn’t care less about an individual country being the winner.
Really? I find it much more fun with all the spots filled.
@Brain:
I look at A&A as a 2 player game so I couldn’t care less about an individual country being the winner.
Really? I find it much more fun with all the spots filled.
I’m a control freak.
Regarding the non aggresion pact:
I’m not saying that Japan should have went full force against Russia in Siberia, they only needed to start minor skirmishes to keep the Russian guessing. The axis had discussions about a 2 front Russian assault, its documented. It took Stalin 2 weeks to absorb the fact the his buddy Hitler stabbed him in the back, if the Japs came at him too it might have really sent him over the edge. The Siberian reserves were a big part of the counter attacks later when the tide turned. If Stalin was fighting a 2 front war (even if the Asian side was only a decoy) its safe to say there wouldn’t have been as much of a Russian counter punch. Remember the axis time table was for Russia to fall before the US got involved. Of coarse England was supposed to fall before Russia was attacked too. And if Hitler was a woman she’d be really ugly.
Japan concluded a non-aggression pact with Stalin before it attacked Hawaii. Tojo already figured out nothing of value would be gained by attacking the Russians because it had nothing to do with the oil Japan needed in south east Asia. Her claims lay in the Pacific and she wanted the Europeans out of Asia into some pan-asian empire controlled by japan. Russia was not part of that equation, let alone sending really light and slow tanks 10,000 miles to attack Moscow.
Japan had no inclination to help Germany, except that whey would be fighting the same foes, but for entirely different reasons…. their own.
If each axis has it’s own VC to be met individually, the idea to help the other is a waste, so playing them both and perfectly coordinating them might just end.
When you think about it, Hitler was pretty alliance minded, he helped Franco as much as he could and wanted some help in return, he saved Mussolini after his debacles in Libya, Greece, and Italy itself, he declared war on the US after it declared war, upholding his allegiance with Japan, and he helped the Finns against the Russians.
And all the while, whoever Hitler helped just ended up not returning the favor, Franco never came through, Japan never attacked Russia, Italy Surrendered and Finland…well they couldn’t do much anyway with the bear breathing down their neck.
On the Split income issue…how will tech work, the US can buy tech tokens with its Pacific money?
So if you REALLY wanted to KGF you just buy all planes and tech from Western US, and use them in the Atlantic.
Not like id ever do that…im a fan of a 2 front US
Maybe their could be a minimum amount that they must spend in each theatre.
Let’s not forget that spending in one theater doesn’t force USA to play in that theater. He can still move his troops around…
Say he wants to go only Europe (i don’t know, a new player’s strategy), he can use the pacific money to buy only fighters/tac/bombers and send them all in non-combat toward Europe
yes thats it true, but Japan can win because they most likely in the global game will have their own VC and it wont be tied to Germany where they have to tag team Stalin
Let’s not forget that spending in one theater doesn’t force USA to play in that theater. He can still move his troops around…
Say he wants to go only Europe (i don’t know, a new player’s strategy), he can use the pacific money to buy only fighters/tac/bombers and send them all in non-combat toward Europe
Well that pretty much ends this discussion.
I do like the idea of individual victory conditions. Maybe they could be optional. But I like the idea of the Russian player not really coordinating a whole lot with the allies, but just having common enemies to fight. I think it could make the game really interesting if victory could go to the allies, the axis, or the commintern(Russia), not saying that the allies and russians would fight each other, but maybe the side with the most victory cities in the end would be the overall winner
@Imperious:
This is not even possible and should not be possible in a game that has anything to do with reality.
On another note: Hopefully this global game will return AA to a social multiplayer environment and no more of the ‘one guy playing 3-4 sides thing’
The A&A games have very little to do with reality, for obvious reasons, a strategy boardgame can only be so detailed and advanced before it gets unplayable. One of many factors is that the ipc/money element in A&A don’t differ between oil, steel and the total number of citizens (soldiers) a nation can produce.
I guess most f2f playgroups are multiplayer environments, but the online A&A communities will still be both 1vs1 and multi. The reason for this is obvious, different players have different preferences, just like there are different opinions on tech/no-tech, LL and other options.
For many experienced players, (like myself) it’s not fun to play multi, and this is not only b/c we’re all expert players, (I’m not a top player or an expert), it’s b/c we have strong opinions on what strategies and tactics that are the most effective, or fun, to achieve victory.
@WILD:
There was a lot of back stabbing going on in WWII. Hitler did it to Stalin, Franco backed out on Hitler, England walk out on France(although forced). I don’t see how you could hold any merit for any of the treaties or agreements of the time. They weren’t worth the paper they were written on. If Japan hadn’t bitten off more then they could chew with the US they could have attacked Russia’s back door at any time. I’m still not sure why they nailed Pearl. I guess they thought they could scare us into signing some type of agreement allowing them to do as they pleased in the Pacific as long as they left us alone. The Tripartite Pact also guaranteed that Germany and Italy would join in against the US (another deterrent aimed at keeping the US from declaring war). Boy that backfired, now Roosevelt had the ammo he needed.
When this game starts the US is not at war. Hitler felt he would be parading through Moscow by late fall of 1941, just as he did in Paris in the spring of 1940. If Hitler could have got Japan to attack Russia’s back door around the time of Barbarossa (a double back stabbing on Stalin) Hitler might have got his parade. There were open talks of Japan ending its nonaggression pact with Russia, because of the Tripartite Pact it had prior with Germany. Japan instead decided to go after the Euro colonies in the Pacific and invite the US into the war.
This game starts before all this. You as ruler of Japan can do what ever you want especially the first couple rounds. In the global game if you want to attack Siberia then as Tiger Woods would say “just do it!”
I would think that in the global game a Japanese attack on Russia would not bring the US into the war, just as attacking China won’t.
Think Japan attacked Pearl Harbor more out of a sense of regaining honor, the US had been playing rough with them diplomatically about the Chinese, and had cut off their oil supply they needed to run their war machine. Basically Japan saw no way out once they realized they had no way to obtain oil except for the euro colonies in Borneo and East Indies, which were technically under protection from the Brits and the US. I guess they thought they were knocking out two birds with one stone by sinking the American battleship fleet and going for broke in the Pacific.
Japan attacking Russia, well, either side wasn’t really interested in what Eastern Russia/Manchuria had to offer, though they had several skirmishes. Neither side wanted a worthless war over a bunch of crap land, but Russia and Japan had bad blood since WWI, so its feasible the skirmishes could have been pushed into a war. If, however, the Axis alliance had been a bit more together from the beginning and Germany had let Japan know about its designs on Russia, maybe they would have been in on Barbarossa. And you can do that in this game! Whether it will actually be worthwhile with all the new territories is probably another matter.
Seems like third round, anything goes! Though US prob going to be pretty boring to play until round 3. Guess the games will be a lot longer :( .
Jesus though, how much money will America start the war with? 100+ IPCs? I mean it makes sense, the US really was the reason the Allies turned the war around in terms of equipment and resources, but still, will the Axis have a prayer if the US can just suddenly plop down 100+ IPCs of units on the East coast for 3 turns after war dec and walk through France?
Guess its supposed to be unbalancing, US entering the war. I guess there’ll be limits on how many units the east and west coast can pop per turn too.
