Russian Sacrifice Strategy

I don’t think you have thought through all of Japan’s possibilities on Round 1.
As has been stated India is not secure and japan may even let you build an IC there so they can take Australia on J2 and take the India IC a couple of turns latter. On average dice a good Japanese player should have eliminated the ability for China to even produce units by US2. Any Russian attacks south from Siberia merely liberate a territory to count towards Chinese infantry production. Japan moves between Russia and the US. Don’t plan on it still being liberated. Japan also starts with a large fleet. It takes several turns for the US to catch up. Japan also makes more money than the US and can easily out produce or equal them while still fighting in Asia. I do not like the Alaskan IC. Every game of Anniversary or Revised I have seen it in the builder of it has ultimately lost it. Also how are the Allies invading Africa if the US is building Pacific Ships?

I think you are likely to see Germany counter with a Baltic fleet either before Mos falls or the turn they get to cash in from the Russian bank.

Germany only needs 60 ipc to buy 2 AC, 4 dd or 62 ipc for 1 ac and 7 dd.  I don’t think the Allies can sink that fleet so easily and if they can’t sink it right away Germany will just add to it until it is safe to move to sz 6, then they start pressuring London.

Japan will also realize what is happening by J2 and …

@mikecool70:

Now yes, Germany might build a ton of tanks and sweep across Asia, but the Allies can limit those tanks to one movement per turn, so it’s going to take awhile.  In fact, Russia could even vacate all of his units from Russia the turn before it falls and slowly move East with them, leaving behind one infantry each turn.  While Germany is taking out Asia, the Allies actually take out Japan and build up enough bombers to keep Italy at 0 IPCs every turn.  They also build up enough fleet around UK to prevent Germany from ever taking it.

Germany will not go after Aisa once Mos falls.

I think this is a lot of “ifs” to account for.  Without details, I’m not conviced you can sink the J fleet (which starts with 3 AC + planes, 1 bb, 1 CA), keep Ita at 9 ipc (and buy allied boms to reduce them to 0), AND keep the Germans from going after London.

Japan can have UK down to 29 or 31 IPCs by Japan 2 by itself.

Mike,

You’re sending 7 Russian Armor into China.  What are you using to keep Germany out of Moscow???

DM,

You’re spending 60-62 IPC in naval units.  What are you building to take Moscow???

You two need to play each other so I can sell tickets and popcorn! :)

Just some good hearted ribbing.

Seriously, Japan can take out all the British islands in the world with 1 transport and 1 infantry.  They’re undefended.  Everything else is pretty much used to take out Australia (which is a continent, not an island) and Asia.

Japan starts with enough troops to take out the islands and such.  Normally by the end of J2 I have taken Philippines, Borneo, E.Indies, New Guinea, Australia, Burma, Kwangtung and all of China except Chinghai. None of that involves any purchased units. on J3 you can count on 4 infantry and 4 armor being transported from Japan plus whatever built from my 1 or 2 mainland ICs. And I say 1 or 2 because I may be placing the second on J3.

There are easier ways for the Allies to win in '41. '41 is actually more balanced than '42.

I am curious if you have even played the game yet. I noticed your first post said looking at the board. Japan becomes a monster quickly in this game.

I have played over 20 games. If the Japanese shuttle troops from Japan to Asia in seazone 61 they are out of range of the bombers from the west US. Japan can also have a carrier here with this fleet of transports on J2 and 2 off Australia to land the fighters that took it. With NOs in play which is how most of us are playing Japan has around 41 or so to spend J2 and around 51 J3.

You have 13 Infantry, 13 Armor in Chihang by Russia 3.  I’m not going to figure out where it comes from, I’ll just assume you do.

Germany has probably close to 20 armor, 15 infantry in East Ukraine by Germany 3.

Okay, who is going to win this scenario?  Russia will fall on Germany 4.  Japan’s still going strong, probably has half of China which is not as strong as normal, but hardly weak with the 3 National Objectives it has.

America probably has bombers in Buryatia/Stanovoj to strafe unprotected transports, which is fine.  Japan can easily keep a couple of cruisers behind to play mommy for the 4 transports it needs to clear Japan each round.  Meanwhile, Japan SHOULD have 3 battleships, a couple destroyers, half a dozen submarines and 3-4 fully loaded carriers prowling the South Pacific making sure America’s at home, tucked in bed at night and not stirring up mischief.

@Cmdr:

Mike,

You’re sending 7 Russian Armor into China.  What are you using to keep Germany out of Moscow???

DM,

You’re spending 60-62 IPC in naval units.  What are you building to take Moscow???

You two need to play each other so I can sell tickets and popcorn! :)

:-D
The Naval build would either come on the turn prior to taking Mos since those units (unless it is a bom) won’t be able to reach or help in the attack, or on the turn you intend to take Mos (again these units can’t help), or on the turn after you take Mos and its cash where you’ll probably have 70+ ipc to spend.

The turn you are going to take Moscow would be a good time to build navy.  Nothing you build this turn CAN help.

The turn before you attack Moscow not so good, IMHO.  May as well build bombers and bring more firepower to bear.  I have found, when attacking Russia, you never have enough firepower!  I’ve lost too many battles with 5 infantry, 5 bombers, 2 shore bombardments to 1 defending infantry to EVER take less into a critical battle then I could possibly get there! (the round before, I would build 100% bombers with scraps for infantry, unless I had my complex in Poland as well, then maybe some fighters there to boot, just for good measure!)

Yeah I agree.

It would completely depend on the odds for Mos.  If a couple of boms will push you over great, but if Russia is so heavily involved in Asia and essentially has only a token defense of Inf only, you may only need your inf/rt/arm already in place.

My main point is I think it is a bad assumption to assume Germany will keep plowing through Asia and attempt to chase down the Allies.

Even if Germany doesn’t go Naval and goes land, they probably go through Persia and go after Afr or perhaps Ind (if an IC is there).

I do like the idea of going after Japan, but I think you need Moscow to stay in the game for longer than 4-5 turns.

If Russia is going full bore after Japan in China, why would Germany follow?

Germany takes out Russia and the Eastern Block States (Ukraine, Belarus, etc).  Italy, free of interference, takes out Africa. (Russia’s already given up, so England and America are not going to be doing much to Italy, they’re going to be busy trying to annoy Germany.)

Meanwhile, Japan turtles.  I’d build an IC in Manchuria, maybe one in Kaisang as well.  No biggie if you lose these since no one but an Axis player can build there anyway! (ICs on Chinese land that is liberated goes to China but China does not build units!  Furthermore, since China has no capitol, you cannot lose the Chinese Capitol and liberate these for yourself!)  Basically, they’re tools you can use to help you resist Russia and England for a while and when they cannot be held any longer, just give them up.

Now you have a Germany with 70+ Income and Italy with 30+ Income.  Sure, Japan’s down to 8 Income maybe (I’ll give it to you that you are able to reduce Japan to only Japan by the time Italy has Brazil and all of Africa and Germany has Europe and half of Russia)

What now?

all is pure speculation until its tried…I say: Mike give it a shot. I will try it the next chance I get. I like to mix it up and I am not afraid to lose a game. After all,no one will actually die. This isnt reality but plastic and cardboard.

I’ve actually tried and pulled off Canadian Shield, so you know I’ll “try” this.  I’m just not holding my breath! (nor was I for Canadian shield, which, I must add, I went about slightly different then originally planned by the C-Sub groups.)

This is some interesting discussion.  I have only had a chance to play a couple of games, but I still feel that loosing RUS early is a bad idea.  Unless you have already suppressed japan to it’s traditional home islands.  Which is a total US commitment and leaves the UK and RUS to take on Germany.  Italy has soo many cool ideas that it’s an unpredictable.

If you do try this I wonder if Russia would be better off sending units to China due to its unique way of sprouting INF.  No reason that both Russia and China get taken out the production race.