Russian Sacrifice Strategy

[mikecool70]

@a44bigdog:

Japan starts with enough troops to take out the islands and such.  Normally by the end of J2 I have taken Philippines, Borneo, E.Indies, New Guinea, Australia, Burma, Kwangtung and all of China except Chinghai. None of that involves any purchased units. on J3 you can count on 4 infantry and 4 armor being transported from Japan plus whatever built from my 1 or 2 mainland ICs. And I say 1 or 2 because I may be placing the second on J3.

There are easier ways for the Allies to win in '41. '41 is actually more balanced than '42.

I am curious if you have even played the game yet. I noticed your first post said looking at the board. Japan becomes a monster quickly in this game.

I don’t own the game but I’ve played it 3 times and I downloaded the map on this forum so that I could study the map.  Yes, Japan can take out most of the UK territories by J2 but only if they send most of their fleet away from Japan.  Any remaining fleet will easily be softened by UK bombers built in UK 1 and then finished off by the USA fleet and air force (USA could even build 3 more bombers on USA 2 once they see the Japanese fleet going towards Australia). Plus, Japan will only have around 31 income to spend on J2.  They can’t afford to be building an IC on the mainland if they really want to deal with that USA fleet.

And there is no way China is going to fall if Russia sends infantry and their tank into China, unless Japan positions a lot of planes to attack on J2.  But if they do that, then more of the USA fleet survives.  So I think it all balances out.  Sure, I’m sure a good player could make this strategy more difficult to pull off but I still think Japan is screwed if this strategy is used.  Even if I’m off by one turn and can’t kick off the Japanese from the mainland and destroy their fleet until turn 6, I think it’s still doable.

[mikecool70]

@Cmdr:

Mike,

You’re sending 7 Russian Armor into China.  What are you using to keep Germany out of Moscow???

DM,

You’re spending 60-62 IPC in naval units.  What are you building to take Moscow???

You two need to play each other so I can sell tickets and popcorn! :)

Just some good hearted ribbing.

Seriously, Japan can take out all the British islands in the world with 1 transport and 1 infantry.  They’re undefended.  Everything else is pretty much used to take out Australia (which is a continent, not an island) and Asia.

Oh, I have no intention of keeping Germany out of Moscow.  I only want to make sure that Moscow doesn’t fall before G4.  I think building 6 more tanks on R2 and retreating infantry from Karelia, East Ukraine, Belorussia and Archangel to Russia will guarantee that Germany doesn’t take it on G3.  Then on R3, I could even abandon Russia and send 6 more tanks into China for a total of 13 infantry and 13 tanks in Buryatia and China.  Japan is dead.

[a44bigdog]

I have played over 20 games. If the Japanese shuttle troops from Japan to Asia in seazone 61 they are out of range of the bombers from the west US. Japan can also have a carrier here with this fleet of transports on J2 and 2 off Australia to land the fighters that took it. With NOs in play which is how most of us are playing Japan has around 41 or so to spend J2 and around 51 J3.

[Jennifer]

You have 13 Infantry, 13 Armor in Chihang by Russia 3.  I’m not going to figure out where it comes from, I’ll just assume you do.

Germany has probably close to 20 armor, 15 infantry in East Ukraine by Germany 3.

Okay, who is going to win this scenario?  Russia will fall on Germany 4.  Japan’s still going strong, probably has half of China which is not as strong as normal, but hardly weak with the 3 National Objectives it has.

America probably has bombers in Buryatia/Stanovoj to strafe unprotected transports, which is fine.  Japan can easily keep a couple of cruisers behind to play mommy for the 4 transports it needs to clear Japan each round.  Meanwhile, Japan SHOULD have 3 battleships, a couple destroyers, half a dozen submarines and 3-4 fully loaded carriers prowling the South Pacific making sure America’s at home, tucked in bed at night and not stirring up mischief.

[DarthMaximus]

@Cmdr:

Mike,

You’re sending 7 Russian Armor into China.  What are you using to keep Germany out of Moscow???

DM,

You’re spending 60-62 IPC in naval units.  What are you building to take Moscow???

You two need to play each other so I can sell tickets and popcorn! :)

:-D
The Naval build would either come on the turn prior to taking Mos since those units (unless it is a bom) won’t be able to reach or help in the attack, or on the turn you intend to take Mos (again these units can’t help), or on the turn after you take Mos and its cash where you’ll probably have 70+ ipc to spend.

[Jennifer]

The turn you are going to take Moscow would be a good time to build navy.  Nothing you build this turn CAN help.

The turn before you attack Moscow not so good, IMHO.  May as well build bombers and bring more firepower to bear.  I have found, when attacking Russia, you never have enough firepower!  I’ve lost too many battles with 5 infantry, 5 bombers, 2 shore bombardments to 1 defending infantry to EVER take less into a critical battle then I could possibly get there! (the round before, I would build 100% bombers with scraps for infantry, unless I had my complex in Poland as well, then maybe some fighters there to boot, just for good measure!)

[DarthMaximus]

Yeah I agree.

It would completely depend on the odds for Mos.  If a couple of boms will push you over great, but if Russia is so heavily involved in Asia and essentially has only a token defense of Inf only, you may only need your inf/rt/arm already in place.

My main point is I think it is a bad assumption to assume Germany will keep plowing through Asia and attempt to chase down the Allies.

Even if Germany doesn’t go Naval and goes land, they probably go through Persia and go after Afr or perhaps Ind (if an IC is there).

I do like the idea of going after Japan, but I think you need Moscow to stay in the game for longer than 4-5 turns.

[Jennifer]

If Russia is going full bore after Japan in China, why would Germany follow?

Germany takes out Russia and the Eastern Block States (Ukraine, Belarus, etc).  Italy, free of interference, takes out Africa. (Russia’s already given up, so England and America are not going to be doing much to Italy, they’re going to be busy trying to annoy Germany.)

Meanwhile, Japan turtles.  I’d build an IC in Manchuria, maybe one in Kaisang as well.  No biggie if you lose these since no one but an Axis player can build there anyway! (ICs on Chinese land that is liberated goes to China but China does not build units!  Furthermore, since China has no capitol, you cannot lose the Chinese Capitol and liberate these for yourself!)  Basically, they’re tools you can use to help you resist Russia and England for a while and when they cannot be held any longer, just give them up.

Now you have a Germany with 70+ Income and Italy with 30+ Income.  Sure, Japan’s down to 8 Income maybe (I’ll give it to you that you are able to reduce Japan to only Japan by the time Italy has Brazil and all of Africa and Germany has Europe and half of Russia)

What now?

[Heavy Deed]

all is pure speculation until its tried…I say: Mike give it a shot. I will try it the next chance I get. I like to mix it up and I am not afraid to lose a game. After all,no one will actually die. This isnt reality but plastic and cardboard.

[Jennifer]

I’ve actually tried and pulled off Canadian Shield, so you know I’ll “try” this.  I’m just not holding my breath! (nor was I for Canadian shield, which, I must add, I went about slightly different then originally planned by the C-Sub groups.)

[captain_target]

This is some interesting discussion.  I have only had a chance to play a couple of games, but I still feel that loosing RUS early is a bad idea.  Unless you have already suppressed japan to it’s traditional home islands.  Which is a total US commitment and leaves the UK and RUS to take on Germany.  Italy has soo many cool ideas that it’s an unpredictable.

[losttribe04]

If you do try this I wonder if Russia would be better off sending units to China due to its unique way of sprouting INF.  No reason that both Russia and China get taken out the production race.