Just to add an extra comment here: I’m not sure I’m understanding the original question correctly, but if it means “what is the footprint (length x width) of every sculpt in the game?” my reaction would be that this information a) would take a lot of work to compile and b) is unnecessary for designing a custom map. To make sure that a custom map is large enough, all that’s really needed are three measurements: the dimensions of the Anniversary game board, the dimensions of the largest naval sculpt in the game (which is probably either the Japanese battleship or the American aircraft carrier), and the dimensions of the largest sculpt in the game which can be positioned on a land territory (which I think would be the American B-17 bomber). If custom map’s sea and land territories are big enough to handle those large sculpts, then they’ll be big enough to handle the smaller ones.
Plastic Playing Pieces
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First I would like to thank the guys at Field Marshal for taking on this project. Please count me in for one set.
Well I posted a list of units I would like to have. It’s something that I created a while back so there are no Italians. It is a wish list of course and I don’t expect to ever get all of these pieces. In all reality I’d be lucky to get one of each type. So I listed my favorite choices for each category on the top of each list.
Three units that I really would like to see are Mechanized Infantry (represented primarly by halftracks), Medium bombers and surface attack (Dive Bombers). For easy of identification I would like medium bombers to be represented by 2 engine and heavy bombers be represented by 4 engines. Last surface attack aircraft. In other words, aircraft who’s primary role was to attack ground or naval units such as dive & torpedo bombers and attack aircraft.
One idea about making sculpture is that if there is already a suitable piece out there, just make a copy then modify a little so you don’t have to worry about copy rights. Just a thought.
Once again, thanks for taking this on.
TANKS
Russians
T-34/76
T-34/85
German
Panzer 3J
Panther A&D
Tiger
British
Cromwell IV
Valentine Mk III
Churchill Mk VII
U.S.A
Sherman M4A1
Stuart M5
Japan
Shinhoto Chi Ha
Ha-Go Type 95MECHANIZED INFANTRY (Primarily represented by halftracks)
Russians
SU-57
M-17
Germany
SdKfz 250/1 Alt
SdKfz 251/D1
British
Universal Carrier Mk IV
M5A1
U.S.A
M-3
Japan
Type 4 Ka-Tsu
Type 1 Ho-HaARTILLERY
Russians
ZiS-2 57mm
ZiS-3 67.2mm
German
PAK 40 75mm
PAK 43 88 mm
British
6 Pounder 57 mm
BL 5.5
U.S.A
M-1 57mm
M-2 105 mm
Japan
Type 1 47 mm Anti-Tank Gun
Type 94 75 mm Mountain GunFIGHTERS
Russians
Yak-9T
IL-2
Germany
ME-109
FW-190
British
Spitfire
Hurricane
Fairey Firefly (Navy)
U.S.A
P-51D
P-47
P-40
P-38
F6F (Navy)
Japan
KI-44
Zero(Navy)Dive/Torpedo/attack
Russians
Il-2 Shturmovik
Germany
Stuka
British
A-31 Vengeance
Hawker Typhoon
U.S.A
SBD Dauntless
Japan
Aichi DA3 ValMEDIUM BOMBERS (represented by two engine bombers)
Russians
Petlyakov Pe-2
Tupolev Tu-2
Germany
Heinkel He 111
Dornier Do 217
Junkers Ju 88
Junkers Ju 87 Stuka
British
Vickers Wellington
Bristol Beaufort
U.S.A
B-25
A-26
Japan
GM4 Betty
NellHEAVY BOMBERS (represented by four engine bombers)
Russians
TB-3
Tu-4 (B-29)
Germany
Junkers Ju 290
Junkers Ju 390
British
Lancaster
Manchester
Halifax
U.S.A
B-17
B-24
B-29
Japan
Mitsubishi Ki-21 Sally
Nakajima G10NBATTLESHIPS
Russians
Vanamoinen
Arkhangelsk
Germany
Bismark class
Sharnhorst
Lutzow
Graff Spee
British
Hood
King George V
Nelson
Prince of Wales
U.S.A
Iowa
South Dakota
Arizona
Japan
Yamato
Kongo
Nagato
Ise
HusoCARRIERS
Germany
Graff Zeplin
British
Ark Royal
Eagle
Implacable
Victorious
U.S.A
Yorktown
Enterprise
Essex
Japan
Kaga
Akagi
Shokaku
RyuzyoCRUISERS
Russians
Kirov
Markarov
Krasnikakaz
Germany
Prinz Eugen
Nurnburg
Lepzig
Lutzow
British
Sussex
Ajax
Belfast
Southhampton
Cumberland
Suffolk
U.S.A
Portland
Atlanta
Cleavland
Baltimaore
Japan
Kako
Atago
Ahigara
Isuzu
KumaDESTROYERS
Russians
Opitni
Gromki
Lennengrad
Germany
Beitzen
Mowe
Narvik
Maass class
British
C-Class
Cambelltown
Cossack
Hotspur
Narvak
Hunt
U.S.A
Fletcher
Gearing
Allen Summers
Mahan
Gridley
Japan
Kagero
Asashio
Hubuki
KuriSUBMARINES
Russians
K-Class
P-Class
V-Class
Germany
U-boat Type VII
U-boat Type IX
British
S-Class
T-Class
U-Class
V-Class
U.S.A
Gato
Balao
S-Class
Pike
Japan
I-15
I-1
I-53CARGO
Russians
Isar
Neva
Smolensk
Germany
Altmark class
Erwin Wassner
Weichsel
British
Bacchus
Reliant
Abbydale
U.S.A
Liberty
Victory
Japan
Kamikaw Maru -
One other thought. If it becomes too expensive to make all of these then I would concentrate on units that you can’t already get from the other A&A games. Units such as mechanized infantry, cruisers and so on. Also let’s say someone wants naval aircraft. (You only really need them for the US & Japan) Well you can simply add P-51 & KI-44 to represent land base aircraft. But if you want to throw one in for the British you can give them a Fairey Firefly. Of if you want to add ground attack aircraft, you add one for every nation except Germany since they already have a Stuka. Anyway, I’m sure you get the point. I hope this helps.
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One other thought. If it becomes too expensive to make all of these then I would concentrate on units that you can’t already get from the other A&A games.
i don’t agree. they need to be released in batches. first batch, standard units. focuse on the non-standard ones later. the only reason i state this again is because a large amount of people were dissatisfied with the quality of the pieces in AA50, and it isn’t possible to order replacements directly from the makers of the game to bolster the already low numbers for some nations
the first batch should just consist of the same amount of units for each nation, the number of each unit type voted upon. so, for examples sake, 20 infantry, 15 tanks, 15 fighters, and so forth in country-specific molds also voted upon
once this first batch is a success, and if there’s plenty sold so it’s worth FMG’s time and effort to make a second, then you can worry about your additional non-standard molds such as mechanised infantry. i think it’s fair to keep in mind that some people don’t own every game, or just don’t want to chop and change their other A&A’s to make up the unit count
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Germany
Lutzow
Graf SpeeIt should be noted that these are sister ships. The Lutzow(originally Deutschland) was the first in the class of panzerschiff (armored ship). She was followed by the Scheer & the Graf Spee
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These are all GREAT ideas! We are going to boil them down to a set in a week or so after everyone has had their say.
Does anyone have any sculpts for these units? (All sculpts/ models will be returned after production)
Thanks
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I’m with tin_snips. Making custom units like mechanized infantry and air transports would be a terrible mistake. Factor in the chances of unlocking mechanized infantry and paratroopers guarantees these “extra” units will hardly see play.
Right now you want to go for the broadest market appeal, ie – people who want better looking A&A pieces for their core game. Most players play with the original rules and don’t add extra units or rules to the game.
The most expensive part of making the pieces are the molds – not the plastic. A lot of molds grantees a large startup price.
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I think that list above is a bit too much. Financially just start with no more than perhaps 8-15 new molds
I think the game needs a bombed out factory to designate the fact that you got damaged Factories or for use on scorched earth rules.
New Italian BB and CA, bomber, artillery. keep the fighter as it is
so we are at 5 new sculpts
Now we need a halftrack piece and a truck piece for both axis and allied mech infantry
now at 7
give the japanese the kongo battleship (BB) and the Soviets its own artillery unit
we at 9
one new sculpt for jet fighters one axis ( me-262) one allied ( glouchester meteor) and a V-1 rocket for techs
12 total for first set. done.
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It should be noted that these are sister ships. The Lutzow(originally Deutschland) was the first in the class of panzerschiff (armored ship). She was followed by the Scheer & the Graf Spee
C_Strabala
I’m aware of this. I have Jane’s Fighting Ships of WWII. Even though they are sister ship they all look different. That’s why I listed them.Making custom units like mechanized infantry and air transports would be a terrible mistake.
TG Moses VI
We all have our own ideas of what we like and not everyone is going to agree on the same thing. If you have a disagreement with someone that’s fine but be nice about it. But don’t insult me or others by calling their idea a “Terrible Mistake”. Just because you post on here frequently doesn’t mean all of your idea’s are always correct or the most popular. For the most part, everyone on this forum are nice people and respectful of one another, even when they disagree. I would appreciate if you followed this lead.Now my reason for wanting special units are because I want pieces that are difficult to find. That will entice me to buy these. If it’s just the same old pieces then I probably won’t buy it because I already have them. The only exception to this is if the pieces are of high quality like the GHQ miniatures. Then I will buy them.
Since FMG will be making them. Ultimately the decision will be theirs.
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I think that list above is a bit too much.
Well I did say it was a wish list. No harm in shooting for the moon. :-D
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Lets give them practical suggestions. Pretend you had a budget only for 12 new molds. Decide and fill the obvious immediate problems and add a few other candidates. Dont be concerned with the actual pieces at this point ( Graf Spee, SU-155 etc).
The first batch has to have maximum success in order for other sets to follow. The molds cost thousands so they need the best choices and not wish lists.
just my suggestion.
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Black_Fox
I do not apologize. And I have a difficult time understanding where you’re coming from.
We all have our own ideas of what we like and not everyone is going to agree on the same thing. If you have a disagreement with someone that’s fine but be nice about it. But don’t insult me or others by calling their idea a “Terrible Mistake”.
Notice, in my original post, I never mentioned you by name. I merely responded to what I saw as a terrible mistake.
I made a statement that relying too much on tech-based units is a very bad idea financially. I stand by this. A nation unlocking a specific tech which would require a new unit (paratroopers, mech inf, rockets, jet fighters) is not that common. Not when compared to the out of box units which are already on the game board. I would rather concentrate on these base units, which have the broadest market audience and appeal not just to specialist A&A players. Think FMG’s Battle Dice. Broad market appeal.
Just because you post on here frequently doesn’t mean all of your idea’s are always correct or the most popular. For the most part, everyone on this forum are nice people and respectful of one another, even when they disagree. I would appreciate if you followed this lead.
WTF are you getting this from? I’m insulted you would even say this. Awful.
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As far as a wish list goes:
I believe a Nation by Nation release would work the best. Think A&A Miniatures – not in size or scope, but in terms of episodic content and timetable. Lets start with Italy.
Replace all of Italy’s units with original sculpts (10). To relieve costs Italy and Germany should share the same mold for aircraft carrier, U-boat, fighter, and transport. Neither Italy or Germany had fully a worthwhile carrier. Italy and Germany shared similar looking fighters. The U-boat is questionable – how different were Italy’s U-boats from Germany? The transport has to be redesigned – it looks UGLY right now.
I believe recasting all units (in more detail, with better plastic, and slightly larger) would solve these problems which I initially outlined:
1. A few/many of the pieces have visible defects.
2. Some of the nation colors are eerily similar (Italy/Russia)
3. Italy uses recycled pieces from other powers
4. Japanese and Chinese infantry are visibly smaller
5. Cruisers/destroyers/battleships all look alike sort of.
6. The plastic used in the molds feels cheap
7. The pieces are too small
8. The detail of the pieces isn’t there compared to previous editions
9. Only TWO cruisers for Italy.
10. The plastic used is prone to deforming (think Japan’s bayonet infantry)
Edit: Even if it’s historically inaccurate, I would like there to be a way to easily differentiate the carrier and destroyer. Normally I say the destroyers have a stern, though Italy’s and Germany’s cruisers violate this principle. Every newcomer to A&A:50 I have played with has this problem.
Edit2: Oh and the Italian color should be GRAY. Reflects their uniforms and they’re easier to tell apart from Russia.
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Lets give them practical suggestions. Pretend you had a budget only for 12 new molds. Decide and fill the obvious immediate problems and add a few other candidates. Dont be concerned with the actual pieces at this point ( Graf Spee, SU-155 etc).
I here you IL. My list is primarily for reference. If I were considering making new units those would be my choices. Maybe if FMG can give us some parameters as to what is feasible then I think it would help us provide more useful suggestion. If 12 new units is the most they can do financially for now, then I can narrow my list and suggestions to their needs.
By the way, I agree with most of your list but why do you want the Kongo for the Japanese when they already have the Yamato? Just curious.
Field Marshal,
If you do make ships, here are my suggestions. For BB I would choose ships with 3 barrels per turret or 2 barrels but with 4 turrets. For CA, 2 barrels per turret with 2 turrets at the bow and 1 at the stern. For DD, 1 barrel per turret and 1 turret at the bow and one at the stern. And of course make the sizes more distinct between one another. I think these features will help make the ships more distinguishable from one another. My ship list above are already set with these conditions.Thanks
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By the way, I agree with most of your list but why do you want the Kongo for the Japanese when they already have the Yamato? Just curious.
The Japanese had 2 Yamato class BB’s, the other 16 or so Battleships looked like the quintessential 'pagoda" style ship typified by the Kongo class Battlecruiser. The Yamato was a poor choice and id give Japan two types of BB to use making the Yamato a “super-battleship”
I dont think all of the Italian pieces should be redone. Nothing wrong with the tank, destroyer or infantry. Italy did use some Me-109 designs so its not needed, but the BB, CA, SS, and Bomber and artillery should all be redone properly.
Keep the original colors as the game. most people wont be repainting them Grey. And you will now be forcing everybody to repaint the original pieces.
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Keep the original colors as the game. most people wont be repainting them Grey. And you will now be forcing everybody to repaint the original pieces.
That’s why I suggested redoing ALL the pieces. People don’t have to repaint units if FMG already provides them with all the unit types they need. Infantry mold has to be redone since you’re recasting all the pieces. Destroyer and tank can be kept for redundancy purposes.
I’m more concerned about “upgrading” the quality (plastic) of the original molds, rather than how close the units come to historical accuracy. Hence, I rather have a very nice, detailed Yamato than a Kongo-class made using Hasbro’s manufacturing practices.
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On the subject of colors, it would be nice if there could be a fairly wide range of them. Different colors (and/or different shades of the same color) have been used for each of the five major countries in the various A&A games, which is annoying in terms of consistency but useful for people who use the extra colors to represent additional countries as needed. So one suggestion would be to ensure that, for each of the five major countries, there are pieces available in at least one of the colors which have been used most extensively for them (and ideally in both of the top two colors, where applicable). My own preferences in those five cases would be:
USA - Green (medium)
UK - Tan (medium) or Beige (light)
USSR - Brown (dark or medium) or Maroon/purple
Germany - Grey (dark) or Black
Japan - Burt orange (dark) or Yellow/amber (medium)
It would also be good if these could be supplemented with other colors, to represent additional countries – preferably colors which are fairly distinct from the ones listed above. A color scheme that I like to use, for example, is blue for France, light grey for Italy, red for China (in the last case, by using the red Japanese pieces from A&A:Pacific) and white for neutral countries.
CWO Marc
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there’s so many different opinions floating around in this thread, and i think it’s getting a bit overwhelming
i think we need to hold a vote/poll to decide on a starting point. personally, i agree with moses. we should just replace all of the units provided with AA50, as the whole reason for this thread starting was that players were unhappy with the over-all quality of these base pieces
but i can also see why some others would prefer to simply add new units to the existing base pieces
just think, though, that if you just add on to AA50 with new pieces, the colour/size/feel/weight/etc will be noticable. do you all really not mind if your new pieces are noticably different to your base pieces? i know i would, hence thinking a re-cast of all base units would be a better starting point. if this will be expensive, focuse on one nation or one unit-type at a time
what does FMG think? if they’re the ones that are going to be going through with the final design, then they should definitely have some input into what that design is
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I am with IL on this.
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New Italian Battleship, Cruiser, Transport, bomber and artillery.
……so we are at 5 new sculpts
Now we need a halftrack piece and a truck piece for both axis and allied mech infantry
now at 7
give the japanese the kongo battleship
make a generic Blockhouse piece in grey (same color as AA-guns and factories)
we at 9
one new sculpt for jet fighters one axis ( me-262) one allied ( glouchester meteor) and a V-2 rocket for techs
12 total for first set. done. and I will buy this.
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Maybe there can be a compromise between the two. Such as:
1st Release: Italy (Gray)
2nd Release: Germany + Axis Halftrack (Black)
3rd Release: USA + Allied Halftrack (Green)
4th Release: UK + Allied Jet Fighter (Khaki)
5th Release: Japan + Axis Jet Fighter (Yellow)
6th Release: Russia + V2 Rocket (Red)Craig asked me to comment so here is some dollar figures.
Production costs for injection molded plastic pieces. The cost is set per hour at about $75. Also figure in a $400 set-up fee. You can expect 144 shots per hour. The number of pieces does not make much difference in the production costs. So if you shot one piece at a time it will cost you 52 cents each. I am currently working on a 48 cavity mold and expect the cost to complete the mold at around $65,000.
Consider this cheap as I do all my own piece and mold designing and contract friends who do the work on the side.
The idea of 500 interested people putting up $50 each = $25,000So you’re talking about 2000 sets sold just to break even. Not more than 10 people have agreed to plunk down money for these pieces.
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