School sucks

Just my opinion, Balung, but I believe that the problem with the correllation between college graduation status and good job has declined because college acceptance standards and college grading standards have declined over the years.  I, to be honest here, place the start of this decline about the time of the Vietnam War.  Professors were pressured not to flunk students out because they did not want to feel guilty if that student was later drafted and sent to war and then died.  Honestly, if put in that situation, I would probably have the same worries.

From there it became sort of a “right” to go to college in the 1980s when the yuppies were invented.

Once that happened, the amount of available jobs in relation to the amount of available college graduates began to be exhausted allowing employers for lower positions to start requiring college degrees (which was great for the employer, they got a better trained cog for their machine, but the cog got the worse pay of a lower position) and it’s been downhill from there.

Now, realize, I do not like the slippery slope argument.  But, in this case, I think it fits the historical pattern as I know it.  Also note, I do not pretend to be an expert in the subject, I am voicing my own, informed, opinion based on observation, anecdotal evidence, life experience (both as an employer, as an employee, as a student and as an instructor) and the experiences of personal friends and family.

It is fully possible we just got unlucky and thus, that’s how it appears to us.  I doubt it.  But it is completely possible.

@cystic:

To the original topic - consider your goals, and then develop the plan to address those goals.  NOT setting a goal is simply setting a bad goal.  Saying “be wealthy” or “be happy” as a goal - IS a goal. 
It is very difficult to attain these last two goals without an appropriate education.

Lincoln has a great quote: “people are as happy as they let themselves be”. I’ve known plenty of college drop-outs who were perfectly happy being cops, mechanics, electricians, etc. Formal education just wasnt for them. Doesnt mean they’re any less happy because theyre driving a Honda instead of a Lexus. Maybe M36 is perfcetly happy being a grunt. Maybe serving his country is his idea of bliss. He’ll never get rich from it, but so what? Do what you love, even if its toting around an M16 in some shithole like Iraq.

because although i am working my a** off now, i am building an amazing house, i’ve got a great car, i’ve got the most amazing wife, and i’m taking 4 people that i love to Orlando soon.  I can take a day off whenever i need/want, and yet i expect to retire in my early-50’s as a multi-millionaire.

My wife’s father was a bit like this. Very prominent tax attorney here in the states. Worked very hard, even argued a few cases in front of the Supreme Court. Married a Circuit Court of Appeals judge. He was worth a couple million by the time he flew his Cessna into a mountain on a clear blue day. Maybe it was an accdient, but he was a fighter pilot in Korea and knew his way around planes. She thinks he killed himself. What she thinks happened is that he had this IDEA that money, status, and things would make him happy (this is a very powerful idea in America, and is what drives our economy, in fact). So when he got those things, and still wasn’t happy, it was like, what can I do now?

I’m not saying you’re like that my father-in-law, but basing happiness on a nice house, great car, and loads of cash, can ultimately leave you unfulfilled.

Now if pumping gas is your idea of a great time, then drop out of school RIGHT NOW!!  Who knows - you could even aspire to be a waiter or a retail worker!

This is elitist crap. My brother-in-law was never happier than when he was working as a checker at Albertsons, making like $30K a year. Very much a people person. Then he got a job that paid twice as much working as a prison guard. He now makes $90,000+ a year working as a Probationary Officer and hates every minute of it. I ask him why he doesn’t go back to checking, but he’d have to sell his house, and his car. He’s become emotionally invested in this idea that money will make him happy.

You don’t have to be a doctor or lawyer to be happy. Its all your attitude. Why do you think there’s so much suicide, divorse, and substance abuse among the rich and famous? Don’t they have everything you listed? Car, house, money, vacations?

Here’s a good article:

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/invest/forbes/P95294.asp

“Surveys have found virtually the same level of happiness between the very rich individuals on the Forbes 400 and the Maasai herdsman of East Africa. Lottery winners return to their previous level of happiness after five years. Increases in income just don’t seem to make people happier – and most negative life experiences likewise have only a small impact on long-term satisfaction.”

I don’t agree. I was able to retire by 41 and can allocate my time to ANYTHING without pressure of money. It wasn’t much pressure even when i was working, because at least i was doing what i was raised to do from an early age. I guess thats it really… doing what you want because it removes all the pressure. The problem becomes one of the inconvenience of marriage and even worse children. As a man you are bound by loyalty and duty to your own cause and theirs and this can be daunting task because often you must sacrifice your own passions in life.

So stay in school, stop complaining, don’t allow any woman to treat you as a dependent, keep your mind on your ambitions, and keep fighting for that clear day when your walking ‘downslope’ in life.

Its entirely possible to be happy at any number of duties. I had some wild idea about joining the CIA after high school, but deciding it would undoubtedly present an adventure, but continuing my education would allow me to focus on many new ideas which would present me with a better overall outlook of life. It has ( aside from a few liberal professors)

To be honest, IL, there are some people who settle and make their lives happy as failures.  Just people like you and I strive to achieve more out of life and, with luck, be able to retire early.  Though, to be honest, if I was 41 and able to retire, I’d still work.  Probably part time, but imagine how much better my retirement could be if I worked another 20 years? wink

That’s the difference between college graduates.  Some have the intelligence and drive to excel in life, others don’t.  College is just a way for you, as an individual, to figure that out.

Oh, and no, that’s not the ONLY way.  And no, just because you decide to be mediocre does not mean you cannot decide to excel later.  But college is a good place for you to figure that out, and transcripts are a good way for employers to figure out what choice you made.

You know, I have to add this…

A LARGER factor beyond a sheepskin is the nature of your spouse.

My Ex ran me into the poor house… literally.  She spent money on every new electronic gadget, and when i moved her out I had a U-Haul full of CRAFT supplies (beads, yarn, etc.)  While I was married to her I never had ANY money… just increasing mounds of debt.

One divorce and a second marriage later, this time to a good Southern Woman who loves to shop clearance racks instead of the full price merchandise, and there is NO debt (except the mortgage), and growing 401(k) and other savings accounts.

A sheepskin allows you to EARN more money…  your choice of spouse determines if you get to KEEP any of it…

I disagree.  A sheepskin only shows that someone attempted to train you and that you retained enough knowledge to pass the exams.  It’s the person beneath the sheepskin that allows you to earn money.

Of course, that does not apply to government positions.  In government positions it’s all who you know and what you did that determines your wages.  Veterans +$$$.  Each degree level +$$$.  Friends with the Governor? +$$$.  Etc.

But in general, it’s who you are that determines your fate (in America) not what you have earned.  I don’t care if you graduated Harvard Magnum Cum Lade, if you can’t terminate a cable using the appropriate color codes, I don’t want you working on my network. :P

oddly enough i am agreeing w/ Imp Leader in this forum.
@Smacktard:

@cystic:

To the original topic - consider your goals, and then develop the plan to address those goals.  NOT setting a goal is simply setting a bad goal.  Saying “be wealthy” or “be happy” as a goal - IS a goal. 
It is very difficult to attain these last two goals without an appropriate education.

Lincoln has a great quote: “people are as happy as they let themselves be”. I’ve known plenty of college drop-outs who were perfectly happy being cops, mechanics, electricians, etc. Formal education just wasnt for them. Doesnt mean they’re any less happy because theyre driving a Honda instead of a Lexus. Maybe M36 is perfcetly happy being a grunt. Maybe serving his country is his idea of bliss. He’ll never get rich from it, but so what? Do what you love, even if its toting around an M16 in some shithole like Iraq.

note - i did say an “appropriate education”. 
And you are right - i need people to be garbage collectors.  However Cops, Mechanics, and Electricians are all educated people.  I was talking with some police officers who brought a guy into my ER about law enforcement as a career for my step-son who was interested at the time.  They were quite emphatic about getting post-secondary education in order to further round one out before applying to the force.  My friends in the trades - plumbing, electrical etc. are quite well educated in their profession - otherwise i wouldn’t let one near the sockets in my home.

because although i am working my a** off now, i am building an amazing house, i’ve got a great car, i’ve got the most amazing wife, and i’m taking 4 people that i love to Orlando soon.  I can take a day off whenever i need/want, and yet i expect to retire in my early-50’s as a multi-millionaire.

My wife’s father was a bit like this. Very prominent tax attorney here in the states. Worked very hard, even argued a few cases in front of the Supreme Court. Married a Circuit Court of Appeals judge. He was worth a couple million by the time he flew his Cessna into a mountain on a clear blue day. Maybe it was an accdient, but he was a fighter pilot in Korea and knew his way around planes. She thinks he killed himself. What she thinks happened is that he had this IDEA that money, status, and things would make him happy (this is a very powerful idea in America, and is what drives our economy, in fact). So when he got those things, and still wasn’t happy, it was like, what can I do now?well - fair enough.  It all depends on what you are accumulating the money for.  With me - it’s not about simple accumulation, but the freedom to do what i want, when and where i want.  I worry less about stalling, and a new house means fewer problems (once it’s built).  Suicide is not on the radar.

I’m not saying you’re like that my father-in-law, but basing happiness on a nice house, great car, and loads of cash, can ultimately leave you unfulfilled.

true.  Unless these are things that actually DO make you happy.

Now if pumping gas is your idea of a great time, then drop out of school RIGHT NOW!!  Who knows - you could even aspire to be a waiter or a retail worker!

This is elitist crap. My brother-in-law was never happier than when he was working as a checker at Albertsons, making like $30K a year. Very much a people person. Then he got a job that paid twice as much working as a prison guard. He now makes $90,000+ a year working as a Probationary Officer and hates every minute of it. I ask him why he doesn’t go back to checking, but he’d have to sell his house, and his car. He’s become emotionally invested in this idea that money will make him happy.

it’s not elitist crap.  If you disagree with it, then ok.  But i am not sure how you can.  You do not need to go to school to be a gas jockey, waiter, or retail worker.  My sister started working at The Gap, and now is the regional manager of a major women’s clothing chain with a great office in Vancouver blah blah blah.  Whether her degree in Sociology helped at all or not i don’t know.  But i don’t think it hurt.

You don’t have to be a doctor or lawyer to be happy. Its all your attitude. Why do you think there’s so much suicide, divorse, and substance abuse among the rich and famous? Don’t they have everything you listed? Car, house, money, vacations?

Here’s a good article:

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/invest/forbes/P95294.asp

“Surveys have found virtually the same level of happiness between the very rich individuals on the Forbes 400 and the Maasai herdsman of East Africa. Lottery winners return to their previous level of happiness after five years. Increases in income just don’t seem to make people happier – and most negative life experiences likewise have only a small impact on long-term satisfaction.”

this is all true.  I think this is because wealthy people don’t know what to do with their money, and the poor have learned to make the most of what they have.  Studies have shown that people’s happiness has more to do with their neighbour’s income than their own.  I think this is screwed up, but whatever.

So yeah - if you think you will be happy LONG TERM without an education, then drop out now.  Just keep in mind - it is tough to get back in.

@Bean:

Bean… stay in school as long as you can.

The real world is MUCH worse than the life of a student.

That’s the effing problem I think. I don’t want to stay in school, but I’m absolutely certain it won’t be any better once I graduate.

I think I really now appreciate Rudolfo Anaya’s saying: life sucks, and then you die.  :roll:

School can take place in many forms even after you get that treasured sheep skin.

Folks (we can cite Theodore Roosevelt) who massively impact this world keep themselves open to learning and growing long after they hear the commence speeches.  The growth is mainly from applying what they learned.

I was broke in HS, and had little choice to what I studied. 
I was still broke on college, but earning some $, and making choices for self-directed future goals.

Now I run a growing web business with my wife, while working and learning things of value to my employer.  Not totally wealthy yet, but we are making progress.

Never forget that in the USA, we all enjoy great freedoms.  Choices on our goals, and what we learn and work toward for those goals.  Even if it is so limited to complaining about how life appears to suck for you personally and then choosing to die.

However, you did choose to post here and you seem to like A & A, so to the rest of us here, you are obviously worth more than the average civilian.

I look forward to seeing you and others around me to succeed in this great nation.

Historical games will hopefully allow us to analyze past mistakes and enable us to sidestep them as we prepare for the uncertain battles and challenges of the future.

Party on!

Don’t be no fool, stay in skool.

Seriously though, if you don’t feel like school is your thing, take a year or two to work, see the world, learn about yourself and what you like to do. Too many people go straight to college or university, do an arts degree because science is too hard, get almost nothing out of it, graduate and then wonder why they can’t find a job that they like and that pays them what they think they are worth with a “college degree”.

But don’t just spend the year or two playing video games in your parents’ basement and being a leech on them and on society. If your life is that easy now, you’ll be not well prepared for what life brings later on when the apron strings are finally cut, or (worse) the strings will never be cut and you’ll still be mooching off your parents when you are 45, and you’ll find that as you’ve never been much use to anybody else, no one else has much use for you.

Wow I sound so harsh and conservative!

You may be the kind of person who’s needs are simple and you can live by yourself off of a minimum wage salary, and you are contented in life hanging out and playing guitar and that’s what makes you happy. I’m a lawyer and I sometimes wish I just had a “simple” job where I didn’t have to worry about clients losing thousands of dollars if I screw up.

Or you may be the kind of person who develops themselves on their own, has that independent ambition and ability, and you start out as a low-level employee and eventually take over the business, without any formal advanced education.

Personally, I think it’s not about whether you get a formal education or not. It’s about whether you have a curious, active mind and will learn about the world and develop yourself as a person. There’s a lot of people in university whose grey matter is not worth more than the chair they are sitting in.

The other thing though about college is that this is where you make the friends that you will probably know for the next major chunk of your life, and possibly your spouse. Because believe me, your high school friends will be 80% gone in the next few years. The people you meet in college tend to be more long-term friends.

College is way better than high school. It may seem scary, but once you get the hang of it, and realize that everyone else is a bit afraid too, it’s a big rush.

Well, I hope some of that made sense anyway.

scary deep there Frood.