Change for Tech Rolls

@The-Captain

Wow, that’s so awesome! 9 upvotes too…, I was about to upvote but given that 9 is your magical number I’ll keep that as it is :)

Lol my most rare dice moment was when I was attacking with nine tanks and they all missed, but this roll is even more bizarre! 😀

FEEDBACK WELCOMED

Hello everyone. I’ve been lurking here for years and wanted to reach out and get some feedback from our house rules on new tech development house rules for use on our Anniversary map. We went out to solve 2 problems, 1) the randomness of tech breakthroughs and 2) the game changing ability of certain techs. We wanted a system where you picked what tech your research with some sort of progressive path to a breakthrough. We have 20 techs that can be researched (at 1 per turn) in 4 categories, land warfare, air warfare, naval warfare and “special”.

Most of the tech breakthroughs provide advantages only in the first round of combat and we think provide some flavour to the game but I wouldn’t mind getting some more eye on this to see if anything stands out as too powerful or not worth the 4 + IPC investment.

We’ve played 3 games now with the progressive research model and it’s been fun.

I should add that while we play on the Anniversary map (neither of us have room for Global unfortunately), we use the following rules from other games or house rules.

Last note is we wanted to increase abilities without adding new units to the game. The map just gets too crowded once you start including new units.

Would welcome any thoughts you have. Thanks in advance!!

**** New Tech Research Rules ****

To make an investment in a technology, the player spends 4 IPC to start a project, limited to starting 1 project per turn, however doesn’t announce with projects they are starting, places a country roundle on the progress tracker starting at Phase 1. Players can only have 1 ongoing project per category (Land, Air, Naval, Special). During the research phase, the player rolls 1 free dice for each research project and may purchase as many additional dice rolls as they want for each of the research projects prior to rolling (see additional dice cost below). The player needs to roll the number on the progress chart and if achieved, the country roundle is placed in the “breakthrough” box. If roll is not successful, the country roundle is moved up one and each subsequent turn achieving a ‘breakthrough’ becomes easier. If the player gets to Phase 3 without achieving a breakthrough, the roundle is moved to the DELAYED box and the technology is achieved in the research phase of the next turn. Having a tech in DELAYED does not block a new project in the same category from being started.

While the progress of each step is announced, including a breakthrough, the player does not reveal the technology breakthrough until the technology is used. For tracking purposes, keep your breakthroughs in the “secret” box until it is used then move to “revealed’.

link text

Land Warfare

Heavy Tanks, tanks attack at 4 and target select land units on a roll of 1 during the first round of combat.

Heavy Tank Destroyers, tanks defend at 4 and target select land units on a roll of 1 during the first round of combat.

Mechanized Warfare, Inf/Art/AAA paired with tank move 2, Inf/Art can blitz with tank.

Advanced Artillery, infantry paired with artillery defend at 3 during the first round of combat.

Elite Infantry, attacking infantry roll 2 dice in the first round of combat. Only 1 roll gets the attack combined arms bonus when paired with artillery.

Air Warfare

Heavy Bombers, bombers add 3 IPC damage during strategic bombing raids. Heavy bombers hit by AAA fire are removed from play AFTER they roll for bombing damage.

Escort Fighters, fighter units starting in the same territory with a bomber may move up to 6 and escort the bomber to target during strategic bombing mission

Advanced Aircraft, land based fighters attack at 4 first round of combat. Land based fighter escorts/interceptors roll at 2 during air combat round of Strategic Bombing raid. Bombers roll 2 dice in the first round of combat, picking the best result.

Jet Fighters, defending land based fighters have a hit priority aircraft and roll 2 dice during the first round of combat and roll 2 dice at 2 to hit during Strategic Bombing phase.

Advanced Radar and ATC, Industrial complex AAA rolls hit on a 2 or less during Strategic Bombing. Up to 2 land based fighters may scramble from land territory to defend in land or sea combat in adjacent land or sea zones including strategic bombing (copied from Sired Blood’s rules)

Naval Warfare

Heavy Battleship, take 3 hits to sink, roll 2 dice first round of combat including shore bombardment. Considered fully operational with 1 hit, half attack/defend/AAA with 2 hits. Battleship AAA defences roll 2 dice.

Advanced Carrier, Carriers take 2 hits to sink & can carry 3 fighters. Carrier based fighters ‘target select’ naval or air units on a roll of 1 during naval combat.

Advanced Submarines, subs attack at 3 first round of combat, each sub in excess of enemy destroyers in a naval battle may sneak attack/submerge.

Heavy Transports, transports may now carry 3 units. If 3 units are carried, 1 must be an infantry.

Naval Logistics, all naval surface combat units (Battleships, Carriers, Cruisers, Destroyers) move 3.

Special Tech

Improved Shipyards (standard rules)

Increase Factory Production, factories on territory IPC 2 or less produce 1 extra unit, factories on territory IPC 3 or more produce 2 extra units. Factories now cost 10.

War Economy, during the collect income phase, players get 1 additional IPC for each 10 IPC it has on the income tracker + results from IPC modifier roll below.

Roll 6 = 4 IPC
Roll 5 = 3 IPC
Roll 3-4 = 2 IPC
Roll 1-2 = 1 IPC

Full Mobilization, repair factory 1 IPC per 2 points of damage. At the start of the ‘Purchase Units’ phase, the player rolls 1d6. A roll of 1-4 grants 1 free infantry unit, roll of 5-6 grants 2 free infantry units. These units are placed during the ‘Mobilize New Units’ phase using standard placement rules.

Mass Production, players may purchase multiple units of the same type at a discount.

Tanks (6 IPC), purchase set of 3 tanks for 16 IPC (-2)
Artillery, purchase set of 3 artillery for 10 IPC (-2)
AAA Artillery, purchase set of 2 AAA guns for 8 IPC (-2)
Fighter, purchase 2 fighters 17, IPC (-3)
Bombers, purchase 2 bombers for 20 IPC (-4)

**** End ****

First of all, we never changed the setup from the OOB setup.  All we changed were the land movement rules to allow two moves into a friendly or already contested space as the second space, and the extended 3-move sea movement from friendly sea bases.  And we added in the economic and political collapse rules.

What that led to was a series of games where one side would engage in cheap moves, like dropping one Italian guy in Smyrna to help push the Ottomans into collapse.  It was making the game stupid so we altered the rules to have the effects of political collapse kick in at the end of the turn, and if out of economic collapse the country could collect money.  This in turn unbalanced the game the other way, by creating situations where Germany was in economic collapse at the beginning of every turn but out at the end of every turn, and so it kept collecting money and had something like 110 IPCs when it got lucky and started its turn able to buy about 3 rounds later.

It also led to situations where countries were in political collapse for three or four turns and then managed to turn things around by getting out before the end of that country’s turn each round of game play.

As a result, we think we hit on the right balance: (1) at the beginning of a country’s turn, before purchasing, it must check for collapse.  If it is in economic collapse, it loses all its money.  If it is also in political collapse, it may only conduct moves that are into spaces that would allow it to stop that collapse in addition to losing all its money.  Then check again at the end of the turn.  If it is still in political collapse, it is out of the game.  If it is still in economic collapse, it collects no money.  If it is out of both, it collects money.  (2) In the event that a country starts its own turn in political collapse twice in a row, it immediately, at the beginning of its turn, is out of the game.

These changes to the rules, based on our playtesting, seem to fix the crazy/“cheap” moves and balance the game better.

How about… everyone gets ALL tech all the time?

OR, everyoen gets a random tech at game start?

just because USA has more capacity, doesn’t mean it can produce units cheaper.
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Reduction in cost per unit resulting from increased production, realized through operational efficiencies.

THAT is what ‘economies of scale’ mean.  Operational efficiencies can be view in terms of {technological} improvements in manufacturing procedures.  Procedures do not necessarily require robots.  Better Rivets (materials) or better training (labor) or better materials delivery systems (just in time) are all realized without robots.

These efficiencies come at a higher economic cost. They are not born out of low income economies. Just look at how many small economies can produce battleships at a lower cost than a larger economy. They don’t exist if you compare quality. If you can show me an example thats fine. The largest economies can do this mush more effectively than a smaller economy, so “economies of scale” also has the meaning that the greater investment of money will necessarily lead to a greater efficiency of effort.

“refers to the cost advantages that a business obtains due to expansion. There are factors that cause a producer’s average cost per unit to fall as the scale of output is increased.”

I look at this as the more income you got for investment, the greater the potential for economies of scale. So to me these are built in factories assumed by the larger, burgeoning economies in the game.

“…since some economies of scale may require a larger market than is possible within a particular country — for example, it would not be efficient for Liechtenstein to have its own car maker, if they would only sell to their local market.”

Another indication. Italy in the game would be less capable of this compared to USA or Germany.

Perhaps rather than a tech for every 20 IPC lead the combined axis or allies have over the other side receives a -1 cost benefit for naval. that would model “economies of scale” a bit better IMO rather than paying some dude in a white lab coat 5 IPC to “invent” a cash poor nations way of getting cheaper battleships, when another nation much larger is somehow paying a 20% markup for the same battleship but has 3 times to economy to do it.

We have to agree to disagree.

Back in 1993 we had a rule for Nuclear Weapons.

First you had to discover it, but could not do so until after round 10 (classic, remember.)
Second, it had to be loaded on a heavy bomber
Third, it removed 50% of the units on a territory if the bomber lived through any AA Guns.

Purpose:  Back then there was a problem of 400 infantry on Japan and it was just a pain to take it.  This way we could eliminate all 400 of them with 2 nuclear weapons and assault the next round iwth infantry.

@bugoo:

As far as tech goes I would propose a point system.  Assign a point value to each tech.  Purchase researchers as normal.  Roll as normal for research, but add up the total rolls and apply them toward the selected tech.  You could assign different researches to different techs, but cannot change the tech they work on once purchased.  Once point value is reached, tech is gained said researchers are lost.  For example.

As US I want heavy bombers eventually, they are worth 30 research, so on turn 1 I purchase one heavy bomber researcher.  I roll and get a 3.  Now I need 27 more research to get heavy bombers.  On turn 2 I decide I want super subs, and since that tech isn’t as powerful I only need 15 research to get them.  I purchase 2 researchers, both for the subs as I want to sink japan’s navy now.  I roll a 2 for my heavy bomber researcher, leaving 25 left, and then roll a 4 and a 5 for my subs, leaving 6 left and with any luck on turn 3 i’ll get my super subs.

This will allow you to slowly work at a tech, rush for it, and choose to go for the good but expensive techs, or take an easier, faster, tech, or all of the above.  Now all nations may buy a heavy bomber researcher turn 1, but hey there is nothing wrong with that!

Hello.  I am digging up this as the tech lovers/haters discussions have started to heat up.

I re-read your thoughts and am wondering if you ever did anything more with this idea of a tech pointing system.  Did you ever come up with point targets for each tech?

The neat thing about this is that it can be easily tweaked with out re-writing the whole process.

Or you could go one step further and adjust the targets by country too.  For example, make super subs very low (read affordable) for Russian super subs or something like that, or even harder for the wealthy countries (like extra points for USA for Long Range)

Because we need variety… each nation gets to choose about 4-5 and we need a good inventory of choices.