Change for Tech Rolls

[Jennifer]

I suggest we offer money back on failed research to represent when R&D might be cancelled by their government due to lack of performance…after all, if a group of scientists arn’t making progress for a significant time, governments do pull funding!

You succeed for every ‘6’ rolled.
You loose all money you spent for every ‘5’ or ‘4’ rolled.
You get 1 IPC back for every ‘3’ you rolled.
You get 2 IPC back for every ‘2’ you rolled.
You get 3 IPC back for every ‘1’ you rolled.

This money may be used on your NEXT TURN to purchase money or for technology rolls again.  Change for technology failures may not be used THIS TURN.

[Imperious Leader]

Hmmm interesting. This is good in the way that its not entirely a crap shoot, but people may spend even more money on tech knowing they may get some money back. If the money didnt come back on the same turn… say it would be able to be used on the following turn… that may be good.

[Guest]

It would HAVE to be the next turn.  otherwise you have almost nothing to loose in dropping a lot of cash on tech.  You get it, or you get about 1/3 of your money back.  And if you could immediately re-spend, then it just makes tech about 1 to 1.5 IPC cheaper.

[Jennifer]

@Imperious:

Hmmm interesting. This is good in the way that its not entirely a crap shoot, but people may spend even more money on tech knowing they may get some money back. If the money didnt come back on the same turn… say it would be able to be used on the following turn… that may be good.

I already put that caveat on.  The last line specifically states that money returned for failed tech could not be used that same turn, but would remain in the bank to be used on later turns.  Maybe I wasn’t clear enough on that.

Also, with as useless as tech is in LHTR (and IMHO mostly useless in classic) at least this makes up for it slightly.  Sure, combined bombardment may not be worth 40 IPC (8 rolls) but maybe it’s worth 25 IPC (40 - 15 Change back, 1 Success) ?

[Adonai]

I’ve always wanted to play as a Germany that has rockets… Hitting UK and Cau, along with any allied IC built in nwy/weu etc… allas, my horrible luck means it’s never happened. Something like this might encourage me to try more. then again, it might encourage me to try more than I should. Besides, making tech this much cheaper might unbalance the game, no?

[Jennifer]

I don’t think you could unbalance the game if you gave Russia and Japan every tech there was.  I just don’t hold that much stock in the value of technology in Revised.

However, you could make slight balance shifts with tech and for that, it might be worth spending some bucku bucks on it for 1 round, especially if you get 25% back (and I don’t think you’d be getting much more then that back since 50% of the time you get nothing back.)

Still, imagine an America with 3 Aircraft Carriers and 6 Fighters getting Jet Power the round right before Japan plans to attack.  That could almost shift the entire battle.

Then again, Russia with Rockets isn’t going to make much difference at all.

[Guest]

@Jennifer:

Then again, Russia with Rockets isn’t going to make much difference at all.

It would if the Allies were going with an SBR offensive… especially with HB’s…

Russia does 2-12 to Germany
UK does an average of 4.5 per HB
USA does an average of 4.5 per HB.

Without a single BOM being bought, Germany would be down 16 IPC per turn.  And if the UK and USA bought a few BOM…
Remember, those rockets require no cost to Russia once developed, and the damage is independent of any future SBR damage restriction by UK and USA…

[tekkyy]

although I feel this is not entirely necessary
in AARHE we do model a bit of “government pulling out” by having multiple boxes to check off

[Imperious Leader]

so Tekky do you think its a good idea or not? i am on the fence with this one.

[tekkyy]

I feel more towards “not”
is kinda something modelled already with progressive boxes

[Imperious Leader]

ok ill go with that too.

[Jennifer]

@tekkyy:

I feel more towards “not”
is kinda something modelled already with progressive boxes

What are progressive boxes?

[Guest]

Final Thought on the idea as Jen posted it…

The rationale for the IPC’s being returned is that research that was not showing promise was cancelled.  So, in order to get the funds back, you should also NOT be allowed to roll for the same tech the NEXT round.

If you did, you obviously DID continue research, so no refund.  Also, political powers are NOT likely to spend money on the same failed idead immediately after they pulled funding the prior budget.

You can try again for the saem tech in TWO rounds though, perhaps some new direction in the reasearch that convinced the powers that be to again spend money on that particular concept.

:-)

[Imperious Leader]

What are progressive boxes?

ok each tech listed has a number of boxes on a player aid that is checked off untill you get the desired tech. Each nation has a number of free rolls and also a number (with limits) of what they may buy for tech. Lastly, each nation has or starts with a specific level of some of the technologies to represent what it had done prior to spring 1942. You are limited to one level or box per tech achievement on a turn and all tech developments are kept w/o knowledge from the enemy. This system makes many historical accuracies possible because you may trick the enemy into thinking your going for the A bomb, when you are really getting jet power. This will keep the enemy into possibly funding wasted technology. it also makes it impossible to throw away your game after the other guy has tech with fruitless waste of money going after the same tech. this is not possible with one box per turn rule. Look at the draft regarding technology and who gets what to start.

[Jennifer]

@ncscswitch:

Final Thought on the idea as Jen posted it…

The rationale for the IPC’s being returned is that research that was not showing promise was cancelled.  So, in order to get the funds back, you should also NOT be allowed to roll for the same tech the NEXT round.

If you did, you obviously DID continue research, so no refund.  Also, political powers are NOT likely to spend money on the same failed idead immediately after they pulled funding the prior budget.

You can try again for the saem tech in TWO rounds though, perhaps some new direction in the reasearch that convinced the powers that be to again spend money on that particular concept.

:-)

Hmm, I like that idea, but let me play devil’s advocate for a second:  What if the government instead reinvested that money with a different research team?  Hence why it costs the entire 5 million man hours to try again?

[tekkyy]

@Imperious:

You are limited to one level or box per tech achievement on a turn

wait where did that come from?

you saying you can only progress one box per turn for a particular tech?
or you can only buy one dice per turn for a particular tech?

the latter would make techs close to impossible to get
a 3/4/10 box tech would take on average 18/24/60 turns to get

the first is quite restrictive too and forces diversification or end up wasting IPC

[Imperious Leader]

OH my poor memory… nevermind… :oops: