We don’t even get to debate issues anymore as HBG is too efficient on the Errata or FAQ !
Planes must end their movement at an airfield
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I wanted to implement this house rule in GW 36 as I think it makes some sense. I’ve seen this in another games and it really add an historical flavor. It would also force one to build airbases or take friendly ones.
Rule would be something like: All planes must end their non-combat movement at a friendly airfield/base, or aircraft carrier.
Thoughts on this?
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@manincellv said in Planes must end their movement at an airfield:
I wanted to implement this rule in GW 36 as I think it makes sense. I’ve seen this in another games and it really add an historical flavor. It would also force one to build airbases or take friendly ones.
Rule would be something like: All planes must end their non-combat movement at a friendly airfield/base, or aircraft carrier.
Thoughts on this?
Then would they have to take off from one too ?
Wouldn’t make sense not too. Plus you shouldn’t just get to build and drop an airbase anywhere.
I always wanted to try a rule where if u build a medium or minor ic, air base or naval base at your capital only and can put on a transport and move it too where u want it.
Maybe give it a move of 3. Plus now u have to defend it in certain areas. -
@manincellv I think that that could be a good idea.
My personal opinion if this happens is to make a major/minor airbase. (or airfield/airbase, whatever) That way you still have the larger and more efficient air bases that give you +1 move and scramble, and you have the smaller aristrips (maybe 2/2) that allow operations. I think that covering the map with air bases could lead to a very annoying scramble umbrella. (More so than already) It gives you the distinction between the massed airfield of Oahu, and the Cactus Airfield on Guadalcanal. -
@trig Great ideas. I think this needs to be explored more.
Overall rule is that planes would have to be at the end of the turn landed at the appropriate airbase/airfield. This prevents you landing strategic bombers for example in the mountains without any kind of airbase and just flying planes anywhere on the map. That was not realistic. This would make airbases really important in the game, not just as scramble centers and a + 1 movement, but really useful. You want to get your B-29 Superfortress to the islands, the a Major Airbase you’ll have to build.
Minor airbase/airfield:
Cost 2/2- Can only land fighters, tac bombers and air transports
- +1 movement aircraft
- Allows up to 2 fighters to scramble*
- Can be built in any terrain without penalty
*This would help in the scramble umbrella
Major Airbase/airfield : Your Class A airbase
Cost 4/4- Can land all planes (Designed to handle the larger bombers)
- +1 movement aircraft
- Allows up to 3 fighters to scramble
- Penalties for building in rough terrain due to the size of the base
A. Mountains, Deserts, Marshes, Jungle 6/6
Thoughts?
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So why is it ok to take off from anywhere but restricted to landing ?
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@gen-manstein If you have to end your turn at an airbase/field then it’s restricted to both taking off and landing. The thought is a plane, of any type, always has to end their non combat movement landed at the appropriate airbase.
If you don’t restrict the planes, then airbases are only good for the +1 movement and scramble, which is the only incentive to build them currently as written for v3.
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@manincellv said in Planes must end their movement at an airfield:
@gen-manstein If you have to end your turn at an airbase/field then it’s restricted to both taking off and landing. The thought is a plane, of any type, always has to end their non combat movement landed at the appropriate airbase.
If you don’t restrict the planes, then airbases are only good for the +1 movement and scramble, which is the only incentive to build them currently as written for v3.
Still not right.
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@manincellv
I like your ideas. My thought would be to not give the minor airbase a +1 range, due to its lesser fuel storage facilities. (Also, a +1 range basically just ups all planes range by one.) My other though would be a scramble of one. (or none)In general, whenever you force the building or use of something, you want to make sure it does not get too powerful or give too many bonuses. You are already getting the “bonus” of being able to land. Scramble and range are a lot.
Also, what is your cost on the major airfield? (not in terrain) And can you land at a damaged airfield? My thought would be maybe one plane, or up to a certain damage.
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@trig said in Planes must end their movement at an airfield:
I like your ideas. My thought would be to not give the minor airbase a +1 range, due to its lesser fuel storage facilities. (Also, a +1 range basically just ups all planes range by one.) My other though would be a scramble of one. (or none)
Perhaps a scramble of 1.
In general, whenever you force the building or use of something, you want to make sure it does not get too powerful or give too many bonuses. You are already getting the “bonus” of being able to land. Scramble and range are a lot.
I like the +1 movement, as it helps extend the range to other airbases nearby. Could try it without though.
Also, what is your cost on the major airfield? (not in terrain) And can you land at a damaged airfield? My thought would be maybe one plane, or up to a certain damage.
4/4 not in rough terrain. In rough terrain 6/6
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This house rule represents an attempt on creating minor and major airbases with an optional airstrip. The thought was that in play testing airbases currently, planes tended to fly all over the map with no consequences on what type of terrain they landed in and how to restock them with fuel and ammunition. To make the game more interesting, planes now have more of a reason to always take off and land at an airbase.
HOUSE RULE
RULE: All planes must start and end their movement at an airbase if possible. If a plane cannot land at an airbase at the end of the non-combat movement phase, then it must suffer penalties.
PENALTIES (all planes):
RANGE: -1 movement
COMBAT: -1 attack, -1 defense
Carpet Bombing: -1
Strategic bombing raids: -1MINOR AIRBASE: (HBG-ACR-330)
Cost 2/2
Inherent AA
Max damage: 6
(3 or less damage will allow a max 1 plane to land until repaired). 6 damage on airbase it cannot be used until fully repaired.BONUS
Aircraft available to take-off and land: Fighters, Air Transports Tactical and Medium bombers only.
+1 movement aircraft leaving airbase
Scramble: Max 2 fighters unless airbase is damaged. See below.
Damaged airbase 3 or less 1 fighter scramble. 4 plus damage no scramble.
Can be built in any terrain without penalty
Can be converted to a Major Airbase for 6 IPP.MAJOR AIRBASE : ( HBG-ACR-334)
Cost 4/4
Cost 6/6 (Mountains, Jungle, Marsh, Desert)
Inherent AA
Max damage: 8
(5 or less damage will allow a max 2 planes to land). 8 damage on airbase it cannot be used at all until fully repaired.BONUS
Aircraft available to take-off and land: All plane types
+1 movement aircraft
Scramble: Max 3 fighters to unless damaged. See below.
Damaged airbase 5 or less, 2 fighters scramble. 5 plus damage, no scramble.
Can be converted back to a minor airbase for 3 IPP.OPTIONAL AIRSTRIP (HBG-ACR-329)
Cost 2
Inherent AA
Max damage: 4
Damage 4 cannot be used until fully repaired, no scramble.
Can be built in any terrain.
Can be converted to a minor airbase for 4 IPP.BONUS
Only fighters, tactical bombers may land and takeoff from an airstrip.
Scramble: Max 1 fighter
+1 movementCAPTURED AIRBASES:
If you capture an airbase, it automatically is damaged, 3 for a minor, 5 for a major, 2 for an airstrip.All other GW 36 v3 rules apply. Please play test and make any comments below.
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Huh ? What ?
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@gen-manstein This could be an optional rule for Major and minor airbases, that’s all.
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@gen-manstein Because you could “Stun Lock” planes from moving away from a land zone by bombing their airfields. And if you want to get realistic, its easy for a plane to take off, the hard part is landing it in one piece.
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So if the Airbase is damaged you can land plane/s but you can’t scramble plane/s ?
This should go one way or the other. -
@gen-manstein Added in some scramble rules for damaged air bases. What you said makes sense. Thanks for the suggestion.
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@athawulf I think a house rule could be that each territory without an airbase can land/ take off as many planes (only 1 strategic or heavy bomber can land per territory) as its IPP value. to add more landing capability, you can add airfields. This also is the amount of planes that would be able to fight in combat
minor airfield
cost: 2 IPP
Lands or takes off 1 tactical, medium bomber or fighter.
Maxi damage: 2
can’t take off/ land unless is fully repairedMajor airfield
cost 4 IPP
Lands/ takes off 3 aircraft of any type.
max damage: 6 and subtracts one takeoff/ landing each damage -
@david-06
I like your thought on built in airfields, but it does have some annoying effects. For instance, Transcaucasia, which didn’t have great airfields, is worth 5.
Not trying to bash your idea, but just pointing out problems. -
@trig What if the amount of Landing/ taking off is also based on which railroad area they are in, such as Europe/USSR? But honestly, if people are going ahead with this house rule, I think people could sacrifice some historical accuracy for simplicity. I wouldn’t want to place down every single time I play with this expansion 50 more airfields with this expansion.
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You ask for thoughts. Here is some Free advice from an old veteran if you wish to ever have a career as a game designer. 😉 I don’t mean to discourage you.
With all respect, I don’t feel like writing an essay why these rules you propose would not work, so I will try to keep it short. But believe me, they bring neither flavor nor simplicity (or a fun complexity) to the game. Instead they create problems that experienced players and designers can identify without playtesting. So please take my advice. You need to try and improve game mechanics, not break them.
Ask yourself; what will the bases compete with regarding spending IPP and will for example strat bombers be more attractive to buy or not? Factors you seem to not take into account, but are important for such ideas to become valuable in a game or in house rules. That is it in a nutshell.
Possibly you don’t have someone in your group that is experienced enough to help you with this, so it is good of you to ask the question here. Keep trying! And find someone who can teach you in this. Your group and the community can eventually benefit from good house ruling so I encourage you to continue your quest. But I really suggest to first solve the issues presented, before investing time in playtesting these rules as they are. Saves you a lot of time.
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@delaja While I am neither a game designer or profess to be one, your post does not tell me anything I don’t already know. This “suggested” house rule was only meant to spark some interest in adding minor and major airbases to the game like ports, docks, and shipyards and using planes in a somewhat realistic fashion. The house rule was intended for someone like yourself, a “veteran game designer”, to perhaps add in things that ‘could work’ not theoretical things that might work. So if you want to add value to this post, please rewrite or add suggestions for the house rule for players out there that would like to see minor and major airbases in the game. I appreciate the feedback and encouragement though.