L21 #2 ArtofWar1947 (AX+12) vs. Trulpen (AL) PTV

trulpenplay

TripleA Turn Summary: UK_Pacific round 3

TripleA Turn Summary for game: WW2 Path to Victory, version: 5.0.0

Game History

Round: 3

    Purchase Units - Americans
        Americans buy 2 carriers, 1 destroyer and 2 submarines; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 

    Politics - Americans
        Trigger Americans War Production Eastern: has removed 1 factory_minor owned by Americans in Eastern United States
        Trigger Americans War Production Central: has removed 1 factory_minor owned by Americans in Central United States
        Trigger Americans War Production Western: has removed 1 factory_minor owned by Americans in Western United States
        Trigger Americans War Production Eastern: Americans has 1 factory_major placed in Eastern United States
        Trigger Americans War Production Central: Americans has 1 factory_major placed in Central United States
        Trigger Americans War Production Western: Americans has 1 factory_major placed in Western United States

    Combat Move - Americans
        Trigger Americans Unrestricted Movement: Setting movementRestrictionTerritories cleared for rulesAttachment attached to Americans
        1 fighter moved from 55 Sea Zone to 45 Sea Zone

    Combat - Americans
        Battle in 45 Sea Zone
            Americans attack with 1 fighter
            Japanese defend with 1 transport
                1 transport owned by the Japanese lost in 45 Sea Zone
            Americans win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 transport

    Non Combat Move - Americans
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Changing ownership of French Guiana from Neutral_Axis to Americans
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        2 carriers and 1 submarine moved from 27 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Hawaiian Islands to 27 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 27 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from 55 Sea Zone to Queensland
        3 fighters moved from Hawaiian Islands to Queensland
        1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Eastern United States to 104 Sea Zone
        1 armour, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 2 transports moved from 104 Sea Zone to 90 Sea Zone
        1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from 90 Sea Zone to French Guiana
        1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer and 3 submarines moved from 104 Sea Zone to 90 Sea Zone
        1 bomber moved from Eastern United States to United Kingdom
        1 fighter moved from 104 Sea Zone to 90 Sea Zone
        1 tactical_bomber moved from Western United States to British Guiana
        1 fighter moved from Western United States to 90 Sea Zone
        1 tactical_bomber moved from Eastern United States to British Guiana
        1 artillery and 1 mech_infantry moved from Eastern United States to Central United States
        2 aaGuns moved from Eastern United States to Central United States
        EDIT: 1 fighter moved from 45 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone
        1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from Western United States to 11 Sea Zone
        1 aaGun, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 11 Sea Zone to 30 Sea Zone
        1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from 30 Sea Zone to Line Islands

    Place Units - Americans
        1 destroyer and 1 submarine placed in 104 Sea Zone
        1 carrier placed in 104 Sea Zone
        1 carrier and 1 submarine placed in 11 Sea Zone
        Note to players Americans: <body>America has joined the Allies, and declared war on the Axis!</body>
        Trigger Americans War Japanese: Changing Relationship for Germans and Americans from Neutrality to War
        Trigger Americans War Japanese: Changing Relationship for Italians and Americans from Neutrality to War

    Turn Complete - Americans
        Americans collect 50 PUs; end with 51 PUs
        Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 61 PUs
        Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 66 PUs
        Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 71 PUs
        Trigger Russians Allied Americans 4: Changing Relationship for Russians and Americans from Neutrality to Allied

    Purchase Units - Chinese
        Trigger Chinese Loses Burma Road: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Closed
        Chinese buy 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 2 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Chinese
        2 infantry moved from Inner Mongolia to Chahar
        1 infantry moved from Tsinghai to Szechwan
        1 fighter moved from Kansu to Szechwan

    Combat - Chinese
        Battle in Chahar
            Chinese attack with 2 infantry
            Japanese defend with 1 infantry
                Chinese roll dice for 2 infantry in Chahar, round 2 : 0/2 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Chahar, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 2 infantry in Chahar, round 3 : 1/2 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Chahar, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Chahar
            Chinese win, taking Chahar from Japanese with 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
        Battle in Szechwan
            Chinese attack with 1 fighter and 1 infantry
            Japanese defend with 1 infantry
                Chinese roll dice for 1 fighter and 1 infantry in Szechwan, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0,67 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Szechwan, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Szechwan
            Chinese win, taking Szechwan from Japanese with 1 fighter and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Chinese
        1 fighter moved from Szechwan to Kansu
        12 infantry moved from Inner Mongolia to Kansu

    Place Units - Chinese
        2 infantry placed in Kansu

    Turn Complete - Chinese
        Chinese collect 8 PUs; end with 10 PUs

    Purchase Units - British
        British repair damage of 4x factory_minor; Remaining resources: 29 PUs; 
        British buy 1 airfield, 1 destroyer and 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Purchase Units - UK_Pacific
        UK_Pacific buy 3 artilleries and 3 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - British
        1 marine moved from Iraq to 82 Sea Zone
        1 cruiser and 1 marine moved from 82 Sea Zone to 74 Sea Zone
        1 marine moved from 74 Sea Zone to French Madagascar
        1 infantry moved from Tanganyika Territory to Kenya
              British take Kenya from Italians
        1 bomber moved from United Kingdom to Southern France

    Combat - British
        Strategic bombing raid in Southern France
                Germans roll AA dice in Southern France : 0/1 hits, 0,17 expected hits
            Bombing raid in Southern France rolls: 4 and causes: 4 damage to unit: factory_minor
            Bombing raid in Southern France causes 4 damage total. 
        Battle in French Madagascar

    Non Combat Move - British
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        1 bomber moved from Southern France to United Kingdom
        1 battleship, 1 carrier, 2 cruisers and 1 destroyer moved from 109 Sea Zone to 90 Sea Zone
        2 fighters moved from 109 Sea Zone to 90 Sea Zone
        1 armour and 1 infantry moved from Quebec to 109 Sea Zone
        1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 109 Sea Zone to 90 Sea Zone
        1 armour and 1 infantry moved from 90 Sea Zone to British Guiana
        1 fighter moved from 83 Sea Zone to Egypt
        2 infantry moved from Union of South Africa to 73 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 73 Sea Zone to 83 Sea Zone
        1 battleship moved from 82 Sea Zone to 83 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 83 Sea Zone to Egypt
        1 fighter moved from Southern Persia to Egypt
        1 tactical_bomber moved from Southern Persia to 83 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 81 Sea Zone to 78 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 73 Sea Zone to 83 Sea Zone
        EDIT: 1 fighter moved from 90 Sea Zone to British Guiana
        EDIT: 1 tactical_bomber moved from British Guiana to 90 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Burma to Eastern India
        1 fighter moved from United Kingdom to Iceland
        1 transport moved from 83 Sea Zone to 73 Sea Zone
        1 artillery moved from Iraq to Northwest Persia
              British take Northwest Persia from Neutral_Allies

    Place Units - British
        1 destroyer placed in 100 Sea Zone
        1 airfield placed in Egypt
        2 infantry placed in Union of South Africa

    Turn Complete - British
        British collect 32 PUs; end with 32 PUs
        Objective British 4 Control Convoy Lanes: British met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 35 PUs

    Place Units - UK_Pacific
        3 artilleries and 3 infantry placed in Eastern India
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Removing units owned by British from Burma: 1 infantry
        EDIT: Adding units owned by British to Eastern India: 1 infantry
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

    Turn Complete - UK_Pacific
        UK_Pacific collect 8 PUs; end with 8 PUs
        Trigger UK Pacific 4 No Enemy Submarines: UK_Pacific met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 11 PUs
        Some Units in Eastern India change ownership: 3 artilleries and 3 infantry

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Chinese regular : 0,67
Japanese regular : -1,00
Germans AA : -0,17

Savegame

ArtofWar1947

@trulpenplay

The attack by US fighter from SZ 55 on the J-transport in SZ 44 appears to be illegal. The fighter flew 3 spaces during the CM, and its flight back to SZ 55 was another 3 spaces. That’s some long-distance fighter! :) I’ll edit the J-tran back in during my I-3 turn.

trulpen

@artofwar1947 said in L21 #2 ArtofWar1947 (AX+12) vs. Trulpen (AL) PTV:

@trulpenplay

The attack by US fighter from SZ 55 on the J-transport in SZ 44 appears to be illegal. The fighter flew 3 spaces during the CM, and its flight back to SZ 55 was another 3 spaces. That’s some long-distance fighter! :) I’ll edit the J-tran back in during my I-3 turn.

Nope, it’s just something wrong with the map.

The fig flew 2 spaces in reality.

Seems the change in the map is not in concordance with correct borders, depending on a doscrepancy of map version.

trulpen

It’s unfortunate, but I think you may have to update the map. For some reason it doesn’t work to simply update in the client, bit it has to be manualky removed from the user directory and the reinstalled.

ArtofWar1947

@trulpen

I do not understand how going from SZ 55 to SZ 45 is only 2 spaces due to a map problem. Has there been a discussion of this problem on the Forum?

You were unable to return the fighter from SZ 45 to SZ 55 during the NCM and had to edit in its return. So it seems your map corresponds to mine. Are you using an out-of-date map also?

If it takes only 2 spaces to move from SZ 55 to SZ 45, I would have put a DD in SZ 45 so that I could have protested the trans there.

ArtofWar1947

@artofwar1947

I have a recollection that when PTV first came out, several Pacific SZs (including possibly SZ 46 and 47?) were not separated, and so movement required only 2 spaces instead of the actual 3.

trulpen

@artofwar1947 said in L21 #2 ArtofWar1947 (AX+12) vs. Trulpen (AL) PTV:

If it takes only 2 spaces to move from SZ 55 to SZ 45, I would have put a DD in SZ 45 so that I could have protested the trans there.

That makes perfect sense. We can fix that. Then I’d like to change the US-move and attack atleast a des.

trulpen

The separation of sz by DNG is one of the latest changes.

I’ll post a screenshot below to show what it looks like. It’s not the same for you?

If you started the game with an earlier map version, then the map will look right (atleast for me), but behave differently.

trulpen

So, I’ll edit the des from z38 to z45 along with the tr.

Then as the map stands I’d like to attack the des in z46 with 1 sub, 2 fig.

It’s possible to scramble 1 fig from z36. Would you like to do that?

There’s also the risk that you see a connection to z46 from z43. Would complicate things and possible that you might want to rearrange your J NCM.

ArtofWar1947

@trulpen

The map version I see is the out-of-date version we used in our previous game.

What other changes have been made in the new version of the map? When did the map change? When did you notice we were using an out-of-date map?

When I opened TripleA to start our current game, I did not get a message asking if I wanted to update the map.

I could revise my J-3 NCM by moving a CV+F+Tac to SZ 45 and adding a SS to SZ 56.

However, if I had the new map from the start, more than the J-3 NCM would need to be changed. My J-1 to J-3 opening was planned out based on what I learned using the old map. If I was aware of the map changes, I would, for example, have built a CV on J-2 and the minor IC on J-3 instead of vice versa.

Had I known the map had changed before we began our second game (or soon after starting it), I would have updated my map and rethought my Japanese opening.

Given that we are 2.5 rounds into the game, I think the fair solution is to use the old map we both can see and have used from the start.

The Italians have some weighty decisions to make, and I used most of my game time last evening and today distracted with the map issues. So, I probably won’t be able to I-3 until tomorrow or so.

trulpen

I’ve had this map all along, but it was first now during US that I noticed the fig couldn’t move properly by DNG.

I think the problem is that you started the game with an old map version.

I think I started our previous game with the latest map, but I have to look into it.

ArtofWar1947

@trulpen

I checked our previous game that you started, and it used the out-of-date map.

trulpen

Seems to be the case.

Anyway, if you want to adjust the purchases, it’s ok.

I prefer that we play with the latest map. Movement by DNG will then have to be player enforced.

Most important is that we see the same thing. Do you have the latest map installed now?

ArtofWar1947

@trulpen

The offer to change purchases is generous and I understand your preference to use the revised map.

I checked with Gamerman, and he indicated that “the map should never change on you during the game!”

I prefer to use the map with which we started the game for a couple of reasons. One is that I do not know what other changes there are in the revised map. Another is I have not installed the new map, because I have another ongoing PTV game based on the previous map.

trulpen

Then we sure have a problem, because I think we see the map differently. Updating the map would give the same effect in your other game, with new borders, but old rules.

I can’t install an older map, since it’s not available.

The last resort is to restart the game from scratch.

ArtofWar1947

@trulpen

I would have to check with my other opponent about updating my map and rethink the Japanese purchases and the J-3 NCM.

I also need to find out what other changes have been made in the map.

Restarting the game is a no-go. The last resort is arbitration by Gamerman.

trulpen

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/35323/ww2-path-to-victory-rules-discussion/190?page=8

Carrier scrambles are now limited to a maximum of three planes from each sea zone adjoining the battle (player enforced);
Convoy blockade zones have been added to sea zones 43 and 38; and
Sea zone 46 (by Dutch New Guinea) has been redrawn to further differentiate the reach of the Malayan naval base from sea zone 38. The redrawn sea zone is shown below.

Strangely enough I did get convoyed from z38, which implies that the later map is in effect. Weird.

ArtofWar1947

@trulpen

Thanks for a list of the changes; this is helpful.

I do not understand the last comment. Were you conveyed from z38 in another PTV game with the previous map? For UK-3 in our game the only land areas adjacent to SZ 38 are Malaya and Sumatra, which are under Japanese control.

ArtofWar1947

@artofwar1947

The new rules (limiting CV scrambles, convoy blockage, and easier access to the Celebes) seem to disadvantage the Axis in the Pacific more than the Allies. If our present game was the first of set or we had used the new map/rules for our first game, I’d agree to the new rules and map and revise the Japanese buys and NCM.

As this is a rematch of a set, it seems only fair that the conditions (i.e., the bid and rules) be keep the same as our first game.

trulpen

I will look into it, but I think the game started with 5.1, but then in round 2 or 3 we changed it. Could be another game though.

I agree that premises should be the same between the two games. Can you please post a screenshot of the area so that I can see what you see? Then I can adjust properly.

L21 #2 ArtofWar1947 (AX+12) vs. Trulpen (AL) PTV

TripleA Turn Summary: UK_Pacific round 3

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