Axis and Allies and Zombies at Origins

YOU??? after all these years??

well, sounds like the board can be used to replace the 1941 board as an intro game to A&A.

This, plus the upped IPCs, might just be the gate way game 1941 should have been.

I  sense there will be a lot of house rules created to help this along.

Thanks for the insights, too bad about the picture taking ban. Even shots of the pieces, which must be done by now, would have been nice.

@squirecam:

Q: Are the Zombies optional (can you play without them)?
A:Not officially, no. But whatever you do in the privacy of your own home is none of AH’s business. :)

Don’t ask, don’t tell  :wink:

@squirecam:

Q: Is there any way to interact with Neutral Countries (Spain, Sweeden, Turkey, etc.) without the Zombies (ex. in G40/1914 you can invade the Neutral countries and they will fight back with INF)

A: No, you can only attack them once zombies spawn in them.

meh/10.

@squirecam:

Q: I understand that the map itself is bigger than 1941. But what about the actual board you play on. The 1941 board is pretty small, which causes it to be cluttered

A: IIRC, its a bit larger.

Was hoping for something closer to 42SE’s size. I’m concerned about the size of the board in certain areas where large stacks of units tend to gather (Eastern Front, UK and surrounding Sea Zones). Was clutter an issue for your group when playing the game?

@squirecam:

Q: Can you explain the Zombie Dice in more detail than that? How does combat with Zombies work?
A: Zombie dice have 3 sides: Attacker, Defender and blank. Blanks hit no one but the other sides kill an infantry of that country.

Seems the Zombies are equal opportunity employers…

@squirecam:

Q: Do Zombies spawn from any combat involving INF casualties, or only casualties from Zombie attacks?
A: Every time an infantry dies. No matter who killed it.

Q: If Zombies can coexist with an army in a territory, what happens when another army enters that territory? Ex. My Soviet stack is in Ukraine alongside some Zombies. The Nazis attack Ukraine. Do the Germans attack the Zombies, the Russians, both, or do they get to choose?

A: Zombies attack first. Attacker hits Defender, but excess hits go to zombies. Also, Zombies get auto-killed when that certain # is rolled.

Follow-up question for these two. Are Attackers still allowed to retreat from battles? I ask because of the following situation:
Setup: German stack in Ukraine, Russian stack in West Russia.
1. USSR attacks Ukraine.
2. Fight begins, Russians lose most of their INF.
3. Russians retreat back to West Russia.
4. Zombies spawn.
5. Zombies wipe out Germans during the “Zombies Attack” phase of their turn.

This sort of scenario seems like a blatant way to abuse the Zombie mechanic. Is there something I said above that doesn’t jive with the rules for zombies?

@squirecam:

Q: Can Zombies coexist with an army in a territory, or does combat with Zombies last until one side or the other is wiped out?
A: Co-exist. This led to issues concerning “hostile” territories. Our group thought that such countries should be hostile and not controlled by anyone.

Neato. At least now I can pretend/house-rule that the “Zombies” are just “Attrition Casualties” (Russian Winter, Spanish Flu, whatever you want to call it).

@squirecam:

Q: You stated the victory condition for the Zombies (they infest 25 IPC’s worth of territories). What’s the victory condition for the Axis/Allies? Please tell me it’s not the tired old “control all enemy capitals” that never actually happens.

A: IIRC, its the standard.

Q: How long does one game take?
A: It says 1-3 hrs. But its based on 41, so I’d just add 30-45 minutes to whatever a 41 game takes.

meh/10. Why “streamline” the game if you’re not going to address the main issue for casual players (the length of the game). If WOTC is trying to appeal to “youngin’s” by adding Zombies they could have at least done something about needing to accomplish the neigh impossible task of occupying Berlin/Tokyo/London to “win”.

@squirecam:

Q: How balanced was the game, from your initial observations?
A: I think balance is an issue, but its being worked on.

Q: Can you compare the starting setup to any other game in the series?
A: More than 41 but less units then 42. Germany seems too strong and USSR hampered because they need infantry and they will be zombified.

meh/10. As for the balance, see my above follow-up question about how the zombie mechanics work. I’m convinced that dead INF can be flung at your opponent to gain an unfair advantage, but I could be wrong…

@squirecam:

Q: Was anything said about the “1939 Setup” that was alluded to in one of the early articles about this game? I was very interested in that concept but we’ve head nothing of it beyond that one article.

A: That I dont know.

Crap. I hope the 1939 setup makes it into the final game. Wouldn’t surprised if they scrapped it, though…

Thank for you taking the time to come here and answer all of my/our questions. I greatly appreciate it.

@DouchemanMacgee:

@squirecam:

Q: Was anything said about the “1939 Setup” that was alluded to in one of the early articles about this game? I was very interested in that concept but we’ve head nothing of it beyond that one article.

A: That I dont know.

Crap. I hope the 1939 setup makes it into the final game. Wouldn’t surprised if they scrapped it, though…

Thank for you taking the time to come here and answer all of my/our questions. I greatly appreciate it.

From Dave Jenson’s article on the Front Page of the site in February:
https://www.axisandallies.org/p/axis-allies-zombies-questions-answered/

The announcement mentioned “streamlined gameplay.” Can you elaborate on that?

One of our goals was to make Axis & Allies accessible to new players while maintaining the depth and strategy existing players have come to appreciate. We did this by keeping the play time fast, and by removing some rules for which the costs in complexity and learning the game outweighed their benefits in fun, balance, and simulation.

We are also including an introductory scenario to help new players acclimate to the basic mechanics and jump into the action quickly.

{snip}

What is the time period of the game? Pre-WWII? During WWII? Post WWII? Or some other time?

The main game begins in 1941, with Germany close to the peak of Operation Barbarossa and Japan poised to attack Pearl Harbor. The intro scenario (mentioned above) roughly recreates the European theater in the time period from 1939 to 1941 where Germany captured the majority of Europe.

I suspect that the 1939 to 1941 scenario is 1) still there but 2) not being previewed at Origins and 3) meant to be a two-person warm-up/intro to A&A gameplay.

-Midnight_Reaper

Well,

Not even two days later and you got a jump on it Squirecam!

I am reading through the questions…interesting.  Are the Zombies optional?  Why would you buy it if they were?  Just play '42 and call it a day…

I got 3 games in myself and had the chance to talk to the designer at length as well as others that played the game.

I am not sure how detailed Squirecam got, but it is simple.  The game is a normal AA game, somewhere between '41 and '42…at the start of each countries turn they turn over a Zombie card that directs them to do 2 things, one good and one in favor of the Zombies…then the Zombies attack where ever on the board, the turn continues on normally except for purchase units and placing units are at the end of the turn instead of the beginning…

Victory conditions for the game are the same for the Axis and Allies but the zombies are an independent entity and can win if they gain 25 IPC of controlled countries.

That is it…

This is the closest I was able to get…

@smo63:

I am reading through the questions…interesting.  Are the Zombies optional?  Why would you buy it if they were?  Just play '42 and call it a day…

Because AAZ is nowhere near the size or complexity of 1942… not even close.

No, what AAZ resembles in map size and complexity is 1941… with one minor exception… the map IPC totals are much higher than 1941… probably the #1 complaint about 1941 is its complete lack of IPCs on the map.

So… why would people want AAZ without zombies? Easy… to get a playable map for 1941 and have a much better intro map for A&A that is very much like 1941’s map, just with more IPCs on it…

There’s no way this AAZ map would ever be confused for 1942’s map.

@Nowhere:

@smo63:

I am reading through the questions…interesting.  Are the Zombies optional?  Why would you buy it if they were?  Just play '42 and call it a day…

There’s no way this AAZ map would ever be confused for 1942’s map.

Ok, not sure if Squire mentioned this but the game comes with a way to add zombies to 1942 2nd Ed. if you like…?  I don’t believe there ever was an intention to confuse the AAZ map with '42…

@Nowhere:

So… why would people want AAZ without zombies? Easy… to get a playable map for 1941 and have a much better intro map for A&A that is very much like 1941’s map, just with more IPCs on it…

We’re 100% on the same page, Nowhere Man. What I quoted is exactly why I would want to Zombies to be optional (along with easier-to-obtain victory conditions). I have a need for a fast and relatively simple A&A title that isn’t as bare-bones as 41. Most of my attempts to expand my local A&A circle crash and burn because people get put off by either size/complexity of the map (even the small games like Revised and 42SE are too much for some of them, which is as bizarre for you as it is for me, trust me) and the length of the average game (I only get to see some of my friends 2-3 times a year and those friends aren’t too keen on dedicating an entire day to A&A). My only way out has been to house-rule in simpler win conditions (custom VCs with a hard turn time limit, similar to how tournaments are run), but I would have appreciated an official version of the game that did this for me.

@smo63:

Ok, not sure if Squire mentioned this but the game comes with a way to add zombies to 1942 2nd Ed. if you like…?  I don’t believe there ever was an intention to confuse the AAZ map with '42…

Well aware there are optional rules introducing zombies into 1942… honestly,  the way the rules are written you could probably introduce zombies into any version of A&A from 1941 to Global and everything inbetween…  the only hiccup I see in adding zombies to any version are the cards saying “place zombies in zone-x”… where zone-x might be labeled differently in a different version but that would be very easy to house-rule fix.

My main point was that there are plenty of people interested in a slightly modified map for 1941 intro player map, and this AAZ map sure looks like a valid candidate to replace 1941’s map for a lot of people.

@squirecam:

I’m not sure how balanced the game is. Taking out the zombies might make things worse.

You’d have to try pretty hard to make a game less balanced than 41.
Or 42SE OOB, for that matter.

Even G40 OOB is better than these two, and everyone on this forum should know the nightmare it took to get the game where it is today (which, after all this time, is STILL heavily Axis-favored).

Guys,

I see your point about a game that needs to be introduced between 41 and 42…I will pass the word along.

And IMO, there is no game as balanced as AA50…!

And after playing 2 more games than Squirecam, I am not so sure the Axis are favored.  Here again, it all comes down to the level of players you are playing against.  Once we get enough games in, we will know more about the game balance…

As for the board, playing AA on the Zombie board might be the answer you guys are looking for, for a version between 41 and 42, and playing without the Zombies?  But need to look at that as well… :?

Peace,
Greg

@squirecam:

I’m not sure how balanced the game is. Taking out the zombies might make things worse.

Not sure if you noticed, but if you take out the zombies, it becomes regular 5-player Axis and Allies.  Aside from the IPC totals, the map is nearly identical to 1941’s map. Minus zombies, you’re probably looking at something very close to 1941’s play balance. As with anything, home modding is super-simple to do… You seem as upset that people might take out the zombies as others have been about putting in zombies. Let folks play with it as they see fit!  :-D

@smo63:

the turn continues on normally except for purchase units and placing units are at the end of the turn instead of the beginning…

You purchase units at the end of the Turn ? What is the reason for that ?

What I loved the most with A&A was you had to calculate and figure out what units you needed before next turn. To purchase the right units at the start of the turn is what separated the skilled player from the beginner. Now it gets too simple, you do combat and move units around, then have a look at the map and see what you need, and then you do purchases. Its getting too simple, man

@Narvik:

@smo63:

the turn continues on normally except for purchase units and placing units are at the end of the turn instead of the beginning…

You purchase units at the end of the Turn ? What is the reason for that ?

What I loved the most with A&A was you had to calculate and figure out what units you needed before next turn. To purchase the right units at the start of the turn is what separated the skilled player from the beginner. Now it gets too simple, you do combat and move units around, then have a look at the map and see what you need, and then you do purchases. Its getting too simple, man

When a major complaint of the game is that it’s too complicated, I expect Hasbro/WotC/AH to attempt to simplify it… And if you don’t like that rule, don’t play by that rule. The thing I love about board games is how easy it is to change how you play. Try modding a video game sometime to see the difference.

-Midnight_Reaper

@Nowhere:

@squirecam:

I’m not sure how balanced the game is. Taking out the zombies might make things worse.

You seem as upset that people might take out the zombies as others have been about putting in zombies. Let folks play with it as they see fit!  :-D

I am not upset about anything regarding the game.  Players can do what they want.  I am just offering my thoughts on my play of the game and what I experienced at ORIGINS.