Lend Lease Aid to Soviet Union

@Omega1759:

Interesting:

http://www.historynet.com/did-russia-really-go-it-alone-how-lend-lease-helped-the-soviets-defeat-the-germans.htm

It’s funny you brought that up because I can’t tell you how many arguments I have had with people who thinks that Lend Lease didn’t do anything for the allied war effort in the end.

A mix of lend lease, action in North Africa, naval pressure, air pressure and commando raids. Add to this the fight in Greece, Crete, the battle of the Atlantic.

In my opinion without Allied presence the Soviet Union collapses.

@Omega1759:

A mix of lend lease, action in North Africa, naval pressure, air pressure and commando raids. Add to this the fight in Greece, Crete, the battle of the Atlantic.

In my opinion without Allied presence the Soviet Union collapses.

Watch out, some people here to try to argue that the Soviet Union won in Europe which is incorrect.

@Caesar:

@Omega1759:

A mix of lend lease, action in North Africa, naval pressure, air pressure and commando raids. Add to this the fight in Greece, Crete, the battle of the Atlantic.

In my opinion without Allied presence the Soviet Union collapses.

Watch out, some people here to try to argue that the Soviet Union won in Europe which is incorrect.

They probably spent 70% of the effort, but it doesn’t mean they could have won alone. Think about the troops deployed on the Atlantic wall, the air battles over Europe. The situation on the Eastern front in 1942-1943 would be quite different…

Well I hate the argument that is made because the Red Army destroyed Germany in the east and captured Berlin which obviously is true but it doesn’t take into account all the effort it took destroying their navy, “stopping” them from invading UK, all the help and supplies. I take the real argument, if you say the Red Army destroyed Germany by itself, then why did Stalin want UK and US to go from liberating Greece to begging them to open a huge front? The answer is that everyone who fought, was needed.

The 60,000 aircraft shut down (not mentioning the slow down of German air production, pilot training, fuel production and impact on other industries). That alone appears quite decisive.

One million personel tied down to man about 50,000 AA guns. An average of 5,000 shells were needed to shut down a bomber. Just the cost of producing the shells amounted for a significant fraction of the cost of producing the 4 engines bombers, and we know the considerable cost of UK and US strategic bombers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_of_the_Reich

It always amazed me that the Japs would let US Lend Lease material sail to Vladivostok

@Caesar:

Well I hate the argument that is made because the Red Army destroyed Germany in the east and captured Berlin which obviously is true but it doesn’t take into account all the effort it took destroying their navy, “stopping” them from invading UK, all the help and supplies. I take the real argument, if you say the Red Army destroyed Germany by itself, then why did Stalin want UK and US to go from liberating Greece to begging them to open a huge front? The answer is that everyone who fought, was needed.

I think its more of an over compensation for every U.S. history book or movie that only shows the U.S. and maybe Brits kickin’ Nazi a**.

@Omega1759:

It always amazed me that the Japs would let US Lend Lease material sail to Vladivostok

Japan didn’t. USSR only allowed non combat equipment and they had to use USSR merchant ships otherwise if it was US, Japan would attack them.

Also the real reason why UK and USSR went into Persia was for two reasons; Oil and the fear of Persia joining the Axis powers as Iraq just did. It being occupied by the allies just made it easier to get supplies to USSR.

Also once again, the pacific trade route would be the least amount due to USSR only taking non combat equipment like boots and food.

Persia would be second.

Archangel would be the most IPC’s due to both US, Canada, and UK sending equipment into this route.

@Caesar:

Also the real reason why UK and USSR went into Persia was for two reasons; Oil and the fear of Persia joining the Axis powers as Iraq just did. It being occupied by the allies just made it easier to get supplies to USSR.

Also once again, the pacific trade route would be the least amount due to USSR only taking non combat equipment like boots and food.

Persia would be second.

Archangel would be the most IPC’s due to both US, Canada, and UK sending equipment into this route.

So you dont believe 5 icp or 50% comes in from pacific side?

If you use my chart or not you would send 5 icps to the closest IC east of Moscow and 2 or 3 icps to the furthest IC south from Moscow and 2 or 3 icps to the IC furthest west and north of Moscow. Now you could build a tank here or there. If you send gr pieces using ships you would not get to build tanks using LL money. Otherwise only Russia could build tanks. Unless u delayed LL on a turn but you shouldnt get to.
Id use my LL chart for all three LL amounts. 1 D6 roll for each try. Just me.  Until u know what happens u need to play test it both ways. Use chart or not to use chart.

@SS:

@Caesar:

I’d say it would be 10 IPC based on the scale AnA does.

D6
Max LL 10 icps per turn.

1. All destroyed
2. Half gets through
3. Half gets through
4. All gets through
5. All gets through
6. All gets through

Looks good SS. Could make 4 and 5 half and increase to All 1 per rd. Makes it more complex but …

@ CS thought some combat planes shuttled through the Pacific route. Don’t remember specifics. Could add planes to their route. Once again a bit more complex but if other routes can …

Keeping in the spirit of the game, might as well let the country decide how much they want to send by each route. UK got a pile of stuff from the US too. Especially for Alamein. That would affect things as well. Once again, adding more complexity.

Know their are a pile of HR’s out there that address that. DK has some good ones if I remember.

Anyway, this was about aid to the soviets, so a good initial post

@barney:

@ CS thought some combat planes shuttled through the Pacific route. Don’t remember specifics. Could add planes to their route. Once again a bit more complex but if other routes can …

That was ALSIB (ALaska-SIBeria “air road”). That involved planes - some combat, some transport - that were flown to Fairbanks, Alaska, and then transferred to Soviet pilots who then flew them to Siberia. I learned a bit or two about that when I was stationed up there in from '01 to '03. Wikipedia has more info on that here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALSIB

-Midnight-Reaper

I think if you’re going to house rule trade routes for Soviet Lend Lease then the Alaskan Far East route should be 2 or 3 IPC’s because as said before, most of that equipment was non combat military equipment like food and boots, so something just enough to be upkeep rather than a fresh unit.

Hey Midnight
saw a thing ? where they flew out of  Watson  lake shuttle mode …but…:) Good points made by all.

The dude on the history channel had a 30 30. Good luck with that was my thought : )

@Midnight_Reaper:

@barney:

@ CS thought some combat planes shuttled through the Pacific route. Don’t remember specifics. Could add planes to their route. Once again a bit more complex but if other routes can …

That was ALSIB (ALaska-SIBeria “air road”). That involved planes - some combat, some transport - that were flown to Fairbanks, Alaska, and then transferred to Soviet pilots who then flew them to Siberia. I learned a bit or two about that when I was stationed up there in from '01 to '03. Wikipedia has more info on that here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALSIB

-Midnight-Reaper

Right on Midnight Reaper !!!
Is That where the Midnight comes from ? : )

Good Point CS
but planes and if we go big and think about the options for each player could maybe do …heh heh I know : )

Well if USSR was flying planes from Alaska to Far East, I wonder if they disarmed those planes to make peace with Japan. Stalin did NOT want to be attacked by Japan with Germany and his allies driving deep in his anus hence why the Pacific trade route wasn’t allowed to take combat equipment.

SC may have a point there. I can see 6 - 2 - 2  for LL   6 icp goes to IC in or around Archangel.

http://www.historynet.com/did-russia-really-go-it-alone-how-lend-lease-helped-the-soviets-defeat-the-germans.htm