How to handle G1 DOW against Russia?

Going for Moscow of course a must but capturing the industrial complexes in Ukraine & Leningrad are essential to capturing Moscow. The factories allow you to build mech. Infantry & tanks closer to the action and build planes with better range back in Berlin. A good Russian player will slowly back into Moscow with most of his pieces intact with as many Allied fighters that can reach Moscow to aid in its protection. Japan hitting the Soviet Far East also aids in bleeding Russia dry of cash as well. If you have a partner that works well together. Your first build should be 3 tanks & 3 mech information in Berlin to give you more hard-hitting mobility as well! Good luck sir!

Depending on the quality of the Allied play, don’t expect to get on Moscow G5. A good allied player will fly up fighters through the mid east.

I’m inclined to buy 2 bombers and a sub G1. Later in the game you’ll have to defend SZ112 so don’t throw away your fleet without a reason. Strategic Bomber really hurts USSR.

I try to be strong in Eastern Poland and take down the inf in Bessarabia and Baltic states with a couple of inf and planes. You generally can’t advance from there G2 but need to build up to move forward G3.

Are you still using fighters and German navy to take out royal Navy on G1? Or are you throwing everything east?

@Fatespinner:

I plan to use my ships and fighters to kill the UK fleet.

The allies players are no pros. We have played a few games and always switched sides, teams and factions. So if Russia retreats everything to Moscow then G5 would not be possible or? How much is the time difference between taking Moscow on G6 compared to waiting for the normal War declaration and then attack?

Depends on Russian buys, unit placements and movement. I have couple of times conquered Moscow on G5, because the Russian player invested on tanks and artillery, and failed to move the Leningrad stack to defend Moscow on time.

@Fatespinner:

I plan to use my ships and fighters to kill the UK fleet.

So if Russia retreats everything to Moscow then G5 would not be possible or? How much is the time difference between taking Moscow on G6 compared to waiting for the normal War declaration and then attack?

You can attack Moscow on G5 if you declare G2.  G5 would probably be the earliest you could mount a real attack on Moscow with a G1 declaration too.  If you’re aiming for G6, you can wait till G3 to declare.

I wouldn’t be worried about Russia going on the offensive if Germany is focused on Russia.  Russia could advance into Scandinavia but typically that’s a novice mistake because it subtracts resources from the defense of Moscow.

The main potential drawback to a G1 declaration is it spreads you a bit thin on G1.  In 2nd edition, it also gives Russia the opportunity to attack Iraq on R2.

personally i would just head south into the territories of Eastern Poland, Ukraine, Western Ukraine, Rostov, then into Volgograd and the Caucuses, main reason being this is where the money is, doing so takes nearly 1/3 of the Russian income away, and from there you can just cheekily take off the odd 1IPC territory here and there on the northern front if you get the opportunity. IMO taking Stalingrad, the Caucuses and all those 2IPC territories is like getting the money islands with Japan. With a 10 IPC board value followed by 10 IPC bonus value, the whole area gives you 20 IPCs to pocket. Its definitely takes effort to take, but it gives you the most extra cash possible on the way to Moscow.

That’s not to say don’t go for Leningrad if its easy, 5 IPC NO is worth it, but it shouldn’t be a priority IMO.

If you focus on mostly infantry to start with (with some artillery and tanks coming in once you take Ukraine), that gives you higher numbers of units on the front to take Moscow with, as tanks and mechs will catch up at a later point with their double movement pace.

@Zhukov44:

@Fatespinner:

I plan to use my ships and fighters to kill the UK fleet.

So if Russia retreats everything to Moscow then G5 would not be possible or? How much is the time difference between taking Moscow on G6 compared to waiting for the normal War declaration and then attack?

You can attack Moscow on G5 if you declare G2.  G5 would probably be the earliest you could mount a real attack on Moscow with a G1 declaration too.  If you’re aiming for G6, you can wait till G3 to declare.

I wouldn’t be worried about Russia going on the offensive if Germany is focused on Russia.  Russia could advance into Scandinavia but typically that’s a novice mistake because it subtracts resources from the defense of Moscow.

The main potential drawback to a G1 declaration is it spreads you a bit thin on G1.  In 2nd edition, it also gives Russia the opportunity to attack Iraq on R2.

True enough but with a G2 you forgo the ability to kill the border inf. I think the 7 dead inf are worth much more than the 10IPC swing.

Fellow players,
In my opinion, G1 Barbarossa is a great idea. My first game I used it, thinking it was doomed to fail, and it ended up crushing the Russians. I believe that one should follow Young Grasshopper’s advice and go for the “Wagon Circle”(I believe it’s called something like that) plan: ignore Moscow’s stack and take everything around it. Of course, that stack can counterattack, and you have to take Moscow eventually, but you can bleed Russia of income and kill many units before you become strong enough to destroy Moscow like you did Paris. Do not be impatient taking Moscow, but advance through the rest of the country with great speed. Also, in my opinion, Japan should always help a G1 Barb. with a J1 invasion of Russia, and aim to take one far Eastern Russian territory per turn.
Thanks and God Bless you all from AxisandAlliesGeneral

You can get the four eastern Soviet territories but if the Soviets still stack Yakut they take a lot to dislodge.

@simon33:

You can get the four eastern Soviet territories but if the Soviets still stack Yakut they take a lot to dislodge.

If the Russians stack Yak for a couple turns to slow down the Japs, then the far east troops can’t def Moscow anytime soon. That plays right into the German hands, doesn’t it. Eventually the Japs can take down the Far East troops, or by pass it and crack through China/Mongolia to press the back side of Russia by say turn 5 or so.

@WILD:

@simon33:

You can get the four eastern Soviet territories but if the Soviets still stack Yakut they take a lot to dislodge.

If the Russians stack Yak for a couple turns to slow down the Japs, then the far east troops can’t def Moscow anytime soon. That plays right into the German hands, doesn’t it. Eventually the Japs can take down the Far East troops, or by pass it and crack through China/Mongolia to press the back side of Russia by say turn 5 or so.

It’s a trade. The 6 in Buryatia (not Yakut, sorry) can only reach in time for a G7 assault. Running all your eastern troops back affects your income which has a more immediate effect. Let’s count that:

• I’ve lately been assaulting Siberia J1 with an inf and a tank. J2, move into Amur, and if everything runs back blitz into Sakha and take Soviet Far East with the inf otherwise blitz through Soviet Far East. 1IPC cost USSR3 from running back.
• Running back Buryatia is taken J3, 1IPC cost USSR4
• Yakut J4, 2IPC cost USSR5
• Yenisey J5, 3IPC cost USSR6
• Evenkiyskiy & Tinguska J6, 5IPC cost USSR7
• Urals & Novosibirsk J7, 7IPC cost USSR8

So for a G7 assault the 6 inf which would reach get replaced by 2inf + 1spare IPC. I don’t know but I reckon tying down a tonne of Japanese forces to prevent them moving back is worth weakening Moscow slightly for a few turns. You can fly up a few more planes which might otherwise be defending Calcutta, or buy a few Mechs as the UK and drive them up to Moscow.

If the Japanese bypass the stack via Mongolia then USSR can walk into Manchuria and/or Korea. I think that would be ill advised.

@Fatespinner:

Well, I have to see how Russia moves. if Russia retreats to Moscow then I will take the surrounding Territories otherwise I will march directly to Moscow.

I will inform you how it went.

You will find that a combined nations defense (assuming that is done) will stop you getting on Moscow right away.

I would like to see Japan support a G1 attack by eating Siberia, but in Balanced Mod, it seems hard to make that attack pay off. If USA is sending any significant forces west (e.g., one loaded carrier per turn), then Japan usually can’t afford to hold off the USA, fight for the money islands against ANZAC, beat down China despite UK-Pacific support for Yunnan, cope with the extra Russian infantry in Mongolia that show up when you take Amur, send a loaded transport to occupy the Soviet Far East, and send enough infantry and planes north to pose a meaningful threat to the Russian Siberian stack, all on an average income of only about 60 IPCs.

On the other hand, if you don’t take Amur, then you can’t get more than 3 IPCs worth of Soviet territory until you break through the Chinese lines near Kazakhstan, which usually isn’t until at least turn 4, and meanwhile the USSR is collecting another $4 or so of extra lend lease income from it’s national objectives.

So how can Japan best support a G1 attack on Moscow in the Balanced Mod? Should Japan give up on defending the Carolines, Phillippines, money islands, etc. in order to funnel maximum land units into Asia, and just stack the Japanese navy in Tokyo Bay? I feel like that risks letting the USA into Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Malaya. Should Japan just build bombers and suoport Germany by bombing Moscow? I’m not sure where Japan could use as an air base. I’m open to any ideas.

I normally maintain peace with the west and go after USSR & China. There’s a possibility of a UK2 DOW with that. I think USSR’s best response is to hold in Buryatia. Those troops aren’t getting back to Moscow in time anyway. I’ve never seen USSR helping out China but maybe it would make sense if there’s no UK2 DOW? The Soviet air force could defend against strategic bombing G3 and also defend Yunnan J3. Never thought about that before.