The Afrika Korps

If I am to offer more of a general critique, which is only meant to help you Afrika. I would say the following:

1. If you are prioritizing everything, you are prioritizing nothing.
2. To make a good plan, you need to understand what the natural reactions of your opponent will be.
3. There is a lot of possible delayingtactics in the game, don’t forget them.
4. Build the best units for the job

In your plan, you plan on taking Turkey, Iraq, Egypt,  Leningrad, Caucasus, Sweden, Spain and Stalingrad by the end of G4. This is simply too much. If you send enough to Turkey to threathen the middle east, you will not have enough to threathen Leningrad. If you threathen Leningrad, you will not have sent enough to the middle east to take your objectives there. You might be able to collect on Cauc, NW Persia and Iraq once or twice, but then you will be pushed back by UKs production there.
In the gameplan I have with Germany, I throw everything at getting Caucasus at the end of G6/7. In this plan, one of the freebies is that I can force Russia to retreat to moscow, so I get all of the other russian NOs for free. To realisticly acheave this, I maximize the use of the gamemechanics. I build an italian canopener from hell (strong enough to take out at least 7 infs), and I build almost only Mechs on G1-3. With all that, I don’t have a little left over, but certainly not enough to be able to afford doing the netural crush.

Really look at what a standard gameplan for your opponent would be, and if your plan can deal with that.  In this game, the UK europe player really is a Mediterranean power. Most UK players first has to protect london from a sealion, then they ususally try to fight for the med. To do that, They usually need to get factories there ASAP. The 3 best places for them is Iran, Iraq and Egypt. You should expect the UK player to drop a mIC in UK2 and UK3. (and maybe one in UK4). Those will produce 6 units every turn, and he will have a shippingroute from SA to Egypt that ships 2-3 units every turn. The force you send through Turkey really isn’t enough to deal with this huge production.

3. Your opponent can scirmish and set up so deadzones. In your plan, I really think you are missing the capability of the allies to set up deadzones. The same way the russian can counterattack the japanese army you talked about earlier, the russian can deadzone his border with inf, planes and art.  The russian army in Belo should be so strong, that you really don’t want you split your invasionforce. The army you  sendt into East poland and the baltic was so small that the russian army that should be standing in belo would kill it with very few losses.  So, since you can’t split your army like that, you can only take 1 terr a turn.  This will delay your plans.

4. I see you build a lot of tanks. Tanks is good for adding some punch to an assault, but horrible at holding the terr and preventing counterattacks. Since you are already planning on building a lot of bombers, you dont really need the punch of the tanks, what you are missing in your army is meat. So, I would switch out most of your tankbuilds with mechs.

Finally, I will give you a sample of a common UK1-4 in the middle east:

On UK1, I land in iran with Tank and inf from alexandria, while I land 2 inf from south africa in alexandria. I also move india art and inf to to westindia since your japan obviosly is North. I also move the Indian planes within range of Iraq.

In Iran then, I have 1 art, and 3 infs.

You have 4 tanks and 3 mechs in greece after G2. ON UK2, I see there is no sealion, so I build a mIC in iran, 1TT in SA and 2 inf in SA. I see that Italy has committed to not be in the middle east (I have done taronto), so I don’t need that much troops in egypt. I see the force in greece, but no TTs so I want to hit iraq with everything I can. I attack iraq with the 3 inf + 1 art from iran, I have 1 inf + 1 art from west india (with th TT), I also have 1 inf and 1 art from Egypt, + 1tank from egypt. So, at the end of UK2, I have 4 inf, 3 art and 1 tank in iraq

Germany will then only use his tanks to reinforce turkey.

The german army in turkey + greece after G3 is:  10 Tanks, 4 Mechs +6 infs.

UK3
I look at this army in turkey, I build 3 inf in iran, I build a mIC in egypt and 1 inf  + 1 art+ 1 TT in SA.

I can now chose to retreat to iran.
So,
Iraq -> iran 4 inf + 3 art + 1 tank
SA-> Iran 2 inf
East Iran - > iran 1 inf
80 -> 81 1 TT

So, At the end of UK3 I will have
10 inf, 3 art and 1 tank in iran. My planes will have started coming from the homeislands (they will have left on UK2). If we assume I did build 1 ftr on UK1, and lost about 3 to the early combats I will have about 1 bomber, 1 tac and 2-3 ftrs within range of iraq at UK4. Plus, I will have at least 2 ftrs and 1 Tac in India at this point ( You have not done an india crush)

SO, If you put everything you have in iraq, on G4, You will have:
Germany : 10 Tanks, 4 Mechs  and 6 infs
Italy: 2 inf , 2 art 2 tanks.
This is a total of 26 landunits. I am not strong enough yet to counterattack. However, I need to protect my factory.

What I have for a possible counterattack on iraq is:
10 infs, 3 arts 1 tank in iran, 3 inf and 1 arts in  Egypt (with TT), 1 inf 1 art in SA and at least 1 bomber, 2 tacs and 4 ftrs.
This is 27 units, which means that you have barely enough to stand in iraq.  Next Turn, I will have 34 units for a counterattack, and the turn after I have 41. UK will produce 7- 9 units every turn and you will have to match that with troops from germany.

The reason I mention this UK plan is that this is standard vanilla play. You need at least enough troops to be able to overcome this and take iran from me. If you take iran and my mIC, you have a shot with your plan, but, then you need to send much more troops. UK have the capability to also send troops from india in support and it is quite difficult to take iran. USSR can also send in planes and supply with mobile troops if they see it coming.

Good discussion all,

Looks like the takeaways are

1. getting into the middle east via turkey with a blitz into Syria/Iraq/NWP/Caucausus is a cool idea

2. but you’ll have to spend your 4 turns of peace knocking out minor objectives like neutrals and Egypt while the Allies get big

3. once the afrika korps forms up, its main mission (kill all allied stuff in Africa) has already been accomplished and it would be a mop-up squad to take the rest of the IPCs and maybe India/S. Russia

4)  and while that is cool, it doesn’t move you directly towards killing an Allied capital/team, which is regressive

5*) therefore, Africa is a juicy but time consuming distraction as ever (IMO)

I am trying out the Afrika Korp in a Balanced Mod game.  UK opted for an unprovoked DOW on Japan on UK1.  They are now earning huge amounts of income; capturing India via amphibious landing on J4 will be impossible.  I will give some lessons learned once this League match is complete.

Well it looks like China is getting out of control on turn 2.  They retook Yunnan and it got reinforced by India to the point that I can’t reconquer it on J3.  There are 7 more mech infantry that were built by India on UK2 so Yunnan is going to be an impenetrable fortress for the foreseeable future.

On the European front, things are not going that hot either.  I had some slightly bad die rolls on the first round, losing several German planes in the attack on the UK Navy.  I also lost a bomber doing a raid over London on G2.  I have insufficient forces to do Sea Lion on G3; now I face the decision of ferrying forces to Scotland and do a G4 Sea Lion, or abandon the operation.

Italy is the only positive part of the battle.  The Med is clear and I will be capturing both Gibraltar and Egypt on I3.  There is no need to do a Neutral crush in this game…

Well the game is over on J4 and the Axis have suffered a humiliating defeat.  Neither side of the board was doing well.

Europe: UK moved fleet next to Gibraltar on UK1 and fortified that territory.  There was no way for Germany to capture it on G2.  I switched to Sea Lion but with slightly bad dice rolling during the game the chance of success was almost zero.  Italy captured Egypt on I3 and was making 42 PUs.  Unfortunately Germany was going to get slaughtered by Russia.

Asia:  The attack on Russia on J1 is not a good plan.  UK simply declared war on UK1 and their income was too massive.  With help from ANZAC + China + India, Yunnan became an impenetrable fortress.  Key ship blocks prevented Japan from capturing islands on J3.  Perhaps better ship placement would help.  Still, I am not a fan of attacking Russia unless they put 4+ troops in Amur.  I don’t see any way for India to fall on J4 with the attack on J1 heading towards Russia, allowing the unprovoked DOW.

I won’t be trying this strategy again any time soon.

Haven’t read the whole thread but:
Won’t the UK take a transport from SZ109 to send a troop to South America, which will activate all of the armies in no time. Doesn’t matter that USA are out of the war.

no one said this in the first page and a half.

Arthur Bomber Harris, was your opponent aware of your plan to use this strat. A UK1 Pac attack on Japan is pretty rare. Did the UK do a Taronto (doesn’t sound like it because Italy was in good shape).

@WILD:

Arthur Bomber Harris, was your opponent aware of your plan to use this strat. A UK1 Pac attack on Japan is pretty rare. Did the UK do a Taronto (doesn’t sound like it because Italy was in good shape).

If the Japanese transports are north on J1 and not at a naval base, they are no risk to India til J4 anyway. ANZAC and UK Pacific can clean up on the money islands and NOs til Japan can contest them. It sounds to me like his opponent made the strategically sound decision to start collecting a lot of money if that was the case – it costs UK nothing to declare war if Japan cannot retaliate by taking away UK territory.

However, I’m speculating – perhaps his opponent was aware of the plan…

Marsh

I decided to try out this strategy the other day and it hasn’t failed quite yet, but it seems I am at a bit of a disadvantage right now. Currently its round 7 and the Germans have made some headway into Africa as they are only 2 spots away from South Africa. They own most of the middle east but just last turn the Russians were able to capture Turkey and have about 10 land units on it. The Germans also own no Russian territories because to make any progress in the middle east and Africa Germany had too send enough units to do it and didn’t have enough to fight Russia. At one point Russia had full control of Slovakia. Also Germany has lost control of Norway to the U.S and they have built a minor there. Western Europe is heavily defended by Italy as they are making 30+ IPC’s a turn, but Spain looks like it is about to fall to yet another invasion attempt by the Americans and British combined.

Japan declared war on turn 1 and avoided attacking the Russians. The Japs looked like they were doing great because they had all of China by turn 5 and were threatening India, plus they owned all the money islands, but than the Russians sent over a pile of men and tanks because Germany wasn’t able to do much to Russia so Russia had units to spare. So now they are losing Chinese spots fast to the Russians. The Japs also currently have next to nothing of their navy left because they attacked the American fleet and succeeded but than got brutal rolls against a British fleet that came over from the Pacific.

I think Italy will be able to defend Europe for a bit longer w\out support from the Germans but the Germans will have to help defend Spain. The Germans if they get to spend all their money on Russian could make some progress but some of their money is going into Africa cause the Allies bought a complex on Egypt and British is now spending 15 IPC’s a turn on the South Africa complex so taking Africa is becoming a struggle. The Japs if they spend almost all their money on the mainland buying land units will be able to retake what they’ve lost to the Russians in China but with barely any fleet left the combined forces of whats left of the British fleet, the transports and subs of Anzac and the newly built American fleet, soon all the money island will be in Allied hands and Japan’s economy will suffer because of that. On the other hand if Japan responds to the fleet build up and spends most of their money on ships, they will either be overrun on the mainland or if they are lucky just hold their original Chinese spots. Either way Japan’s economy is going to suffer in the coming turns.

@Marshmallow:

@WILD:

Arthur Bomber Harris, was your opponent aware of your plan to use this strat. A UK1 Pac attack on Japan is pretty rare. Did the UK do a Taronto (doesn’t sound like it because Italy was in good shape).

If the Japanese transports are north on J1 and not at a naval base, they are no risk to India til J4 anyway. ANZAC and UK Pacific can clean up on the money islands and NOs til Japan can contest them. It sounds to me like his opponent made the strategically sound decision to start collecting a lot of money if that was the case – it costs UK nothing to declare war if Japan cannot retaliate by taking away UK territory.

However, I’m speculating – perhaps his opponent was aware of the plan…

Marsh

Exactly my point, that’s why I was asking for more info. Did the opponent know the plan, and if he did this test game didn’t offer much. The UK1 attack on the Japanese, and what looks like no Taronto raid seem to be pretty rare IMO. Both of these UK moves would directly have an effect on this Afrikorps strat.

On the Pac side if you know that they are going to slow boat it (keep the US out until they DOW end of US3) then yea you attack early with the UK because it has no effect on the US war status anyway. If he didn’t know the overall plan then as the Japanese you need to do a much better job of selling a J2 attack (then a J3 attack). As you said Marsh, if the Japanese navy/tpts are out of position to threaten the UK/Anz, then it could be coincidental that the UK was aggressive. You need to transport units down to Kwangsi to threaten the DEI etc…(can use them to retake Yunnan). You need to keep pressure on the UK, and make sure that if they are aggressive that you can make them pay at Burma etc… (while keeping your ground units from being easy targets).

On the Euro side if you know the plan then you probably want to preserve your UK assets for counter attacks/def. Plus you know it will be awhile before the US can bail you out. England is a possible alternate target, so you have to defend the Island Kingdom. Forgoing a Taronto Raid helps with both of these issues, and kinda works directly against this AK strat. It keeps most of the RAF at home, and the Med fleet stays alive. Now it is possible that if he followed a heavy G1 naval build (carrier, dd, tpt) that the UK player just buckled down. So again as the axis you want to threaten England, but you also want the UK Med fleet sunk so it can’t be used later (need to walk a fine line on G1).

My first German build was a complex on Romania, some subs and a tank. The complex was so I could build a little navy presence in the Turkish strait so once I take Turkey I could relieve some pressure on the Italians.  The U.K reacted by building a complex on Egypt and stacking there.  The Italians were great right off the bat as I placed a german fighter on Southern Italy and when the British did the Taranto raid they failed and Italy had the Mediterranean to themselves.

Yeah the U.S. did spend a lot of money in the Pacific the first four rounds and than started building transports and shipping men in the Europe. Although they are starting to build a naval presence in the pacific again after getting crushed the first time I attacked them.

Also, I did use the Germans to attack Turkey on turn 3, as soon as I did this though, Russia started stacking in the Caucasus.

@GermanEmpire:

My first German build was a complex on Romania, some subs and a tank. The complex was so I could build a little navy presence in the Turkish strait so once I take Turkey I could relieve some pressure on the Italians.  The U.K reacted by building a complex on Egypt and stacking there.  The Italians were great right off the bat as I placed a german fighter on Southern Italy and when the British did the Taranto raid they failed and Italy had the Mediterranean to themselves.

Yeah the U.S. did spend a lot of money in the Pacific the first four rounds and than started building transports and shipping men in the Europe. Although they are starting to build a naval presence in the pacific again after getting crushed the first time I attacked them.

Also, I did use the Germans to attack Turkey on turn 3, as soon as I did this though, Russia started stacking in the Caucasus.

Ok so your game went a little smoother, but if you had faked a Sea lion (added a carrier to the Baltic fleet) instead of building the Romanian IC then the UK would have had to buy units for London instead of minor for Egypt (exactly what I would have done in that situation as UK). You were showing Barbarossa not Sea Lion giving them some breathing room IMO. I think I would have waited to build a minor w/Germany, maybe even waited to plop it down on Turkey (lots of possibilities).

O yea, did the Japanese hit and run the Hawaiian fleet J1?