I’ve been lurking this thread, ever since you pointed me in the direction of this section. I honestly didn’t even know it existed until a week ago! :-D
This is the kind of feedback I was hoping more people might explore for G40 or 42.2, but as one might expect the HR section tends to attract more discussion and digression than hard data haha.
True. I just thought this would be the best place do to the game.
I honestly feel like I need to start setting aside some cash now to build out a global war game of my own.
:-)Aaahhh you must do that as soon as possible. Never regret it. Make sure you have dice boxes at both ends and split the UK players so you have 1 player on each end to keep game moving.
For scale, I know there are different levels of accessibility. I still tend to gravitate towards the highly simplistic boards in the hopes that maybe if those worked a bit better, then when graduating to the more advanced stuff the gameplay would be more satisfying. Clearly this map kicks the ���� out of G40 at that level. So it’s really cool to see the concept being explored at a higher level.
Thank You. Yes game is a bit longer now with Baron’s mods and your C5 Stg. Bomber ! But its all great !!!
Just wanted to toss some moral support into the mix, even if I fall silent for the in depth discussion of the practical elements, since I’d be a total newbie there. It still looks killer!
:evil:
Thank You again Black Elk. I will post more reports next week after we have are 39 game.
Baron, what do you think of the Stg. bomber getting 2 D6 -1 because the Fig D4 on SBR.
At least it gives UK some punch but they have to make sure they have interceptors in Russia and London at all times.
@SS:
Baron, what do you think of the Stg. bomber getting 2 D6 -1 because the Fig D4 on SBR.
At least it gives UK some punch but they have to make sure they have interceptors in Russia and London at all times.
I crushed some numbers yesterday.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=39384.msg1632886#msg1632886
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35883.msg1632974#msg1632974
I found you get the most optimized figures with StB A0 D0, A2 Dmg 6 C5, Fg A4 D4, TcB A6 D4 C8 SBR A2 D6.
I envy your units and game. You can play exactly as I wanted to do.
Triple A cannot adapt all little Fg and TcB special attack.
So, gives A2 to StB.
If you lack escort for Allies early, it needs either a special AB bonus for Fg on escort mission, and only them.
ICs on your map are far far away compared to G40.
Or Allies need to rush for long range Fg to provide escort.
Also, UK or US may have to wait to get enough StBs before starting SBR.
I suggest at 1 StB:1 Fg ratio will be harmful to Germany’s interceptors.
Allies throw massive squadrons of bombers to protect each other from Me-109.
Just wait 2 turns with increasing StBs numbers. It will scared Germany and immobilize Fg ressources near Berlin.
Funny, because it reenact WWII strategy with not much difficulty.
Enjoy.
What about these stats ?
Stg. Bomber A0 D0 C5 M6-7@1 1D6+2
H Stg Bomber A2 D0 C8 M7-8 @2 2D 6-2
H Bomber can choose either ground or naval attack with A2 or @2 dogfight
@Baron:
@SS:
Baron, what do you think of the Stg. bomber getting 2 D6 -1 because the Fig D4 on SBR.
At least it gives UK some punch but they have to make sure they have interceptors in Russia and London at all times.
I crushed some numbers yesterday.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=39384.msg1632886#msg1632886
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35883.msg1632974#msg1632974
I found you get the most optimized figures with StB A0 D0, A2 Dmg 6 C5, Fg A4 D4, TcB A6 D4 C8 SBR A2 D6.I envy your units and game. You can play exactly as I wanted to do.
Triple A cannot adapt all little Fg and TcB special attack.
So, gives A2 to StB.If you lack escort for Allies early, it needs either a special AB bonus for Fg on escort mission, and only them.
ICs on your map are far far away compared to G40.
Or Allies need to rush for long range Fg to provide escort.Also, UK or US may have to wait to get enough StBs before starting SBR.
I suggest at 1 StB:1 Fg ratio will be harmful to Germany’s interceptors.
Allies throw massive squadrons of bombers to protect each other from Me-109.
Just wait 2 turns with increasing StBs numbers. It will scared Germany and immobilize Fg ressources near Berlin.
Funny, because it reenact WWII strategy with not much difficulty.Yes this is all true. I’ll play it the same as last game Let me know what u think of my last post with stats.
And yes we gave the stg bomber M7-8
Enjoy.
@SS:
What about these stats ?
Stg. Bomber A0 D0 C5 M7-8 @1 1D6+2
H Stg Bomber A2 D0 C8 M7-8 @2 2D 6-2
H Bomber can choose either ground or naval attack with A2 or @2 dogfight
If you increase to D6+2, Germany will bomb your ass…ets in UK and Russia.
You will be IC’s maxed out before Germany.
Rise StBs dogfight values to A2.
For Heavy, you can throw 2D6 minus 2, it provides a few randoms from 0 to 10.
Might be interesting. Heavy are bombing from high in sky, may sometimes miss target. :-(
And average will be 5.0 instead of 5.5.
You may also rise to A3 both dogfight and regular combat.
Magic of D12, it allows to be a bit better than StBs. :-D
StB will be cheaper but accurate (1 to 6 dmg) while Heavy will think big (0 to 10 dmg).
StB A2 vs Hvy A3 in dogfight.
StB A0 vs Heavy A3 in regular combat.
C5 vs C8.
I would like to watch this game.
:-)
I know that about R and UK gettin bombed like crazy. I’ll have to look at setup. I think Germany can’t bomb Russia until turn 2. Anyway this is what I’ll go for.
Stg Bomber A0 D0 C5 M7-8 @2 1D6
H Bomber A3 D0 C8 M7-8 @3 2 D6-2 pick dogfight or combat
Yes I see we’re the H Bomber gets the extra A3 and the damage is just a bit higher
In ave than the stg bomber.
Typing from phone so disregard misspells.
I’ll post pics of map and all results of SBR’s when we start a new game.
@SS:
I know that about R and UK gettin bombed like crazy. I’ll have to look at setup. I think Germany can’t bomb Russia until turn 2. Anyway this is what I’ll go for.
Stg Bomber A0 D0 C5 M7-8 @2 1D6
H Bomber A3 D0 C8 M7-8 @3 2 D6-2 pick dogfight or combatYes I see we’re the H Bomber gets the extra A3 and the damage is just a bit higher
In ave than the stg bomber.Typing from phone so disregard misspells.
I’ll post pics of map and all results of SBR’s when we start a new game.
In fact it is not an higher average 5 vs 5.5 but you can get an higher result 10 vs 8:
Roll D6 + 2 Roll 2D6-2
1 3 2 0
2 4 3 12=2
3 5 4 23=6
4 6 5 34=12
5 7 6 45=20
6 8 7 56=30
8 65=30
9 74=28
10 83=24
11 92=18
12 101=10
Sum: 33 180
Avg: /6 = 5.5 /36 = 5
Or (3+8)/2= 5.5 (0+10)/2= 5
I clearly prefer 2D6-2 because of the wider spectre of possibilities.
From zero to 10, with a more natural average of damage around 4-5-6 IPCs damage from (“6”-“7”-“8” roll).
Your Heavy bomber can totally miss (0) or hit the bull’s eyes (10).
Find it more historical.
With D+2 method, it is always 1 out 6 odds of any results with minimum damage of 3 IPCs.
Seems there was no garantee to hit target on a bombing run. So, this is less historical.
@SS:
I know that about R and UK gettin bombed like crazy. I’ll have to look at setup. I think Germany can’t bomb Russia until turn 2. Anyway this is what I’ll go for.
Stg Bomber A0 D0 C5 M7-8 @2 1D6
H Bomber A3 D0 C8 M7-8 @3 2 D6-2 pick dogfight or combatYes I see we’re the H Bomber gets the extra A3 and the damage is just a bit higher
In ave than the stg bomber.Typing from phone so disregard misspells.
I’ll post pics of map and all results of SBR’s when we start a new game.
Do you play next week end?
Yes, we did play but it was are normal scheduled 39 game.
In process of setting up the 40 game again and playing soon. I’ll post results when it happens.
Will try one more game for now. Some guys want to play with normal values and see if the game also goes faster.
@SS:
Yes, we did play but it was are normal scheduled 39 game.
In process of setting up the 40 game again and playing soon. I’ll post results when it happens.
Will try one more game for now. Some guys want to play with normal values and see if the game also goes faster.
Great!
Here is my time forcast:
Fg doesn’t affect game in itself. But more units increase length of a game.
Cheaper, so you can buy more.
TcB makes for longer combat because higher value unit are taken out of combat.
StB makes a faster game because it reduces power projection so you don’t have to look in a directions to see what battle they can thrown in. Lonely TPs need a shorter double check before leaving them in a SZ.
@SS:
Yes, we did play but it was are normal scheduled 39 game.
In process of setting up the 40 game again and playing soon. I’ll post results when it happens.
Will try one more game for now. Some guys want to play with normal values and see if the game also goes faster.
Was it faster?
Yes it is going faster. We want to play few more games and with enough players should get 10 turns ( Axis need 15 VC’s at end of turn 10 for victory ) in for 8 hours. Thats the goal. May end soon do to surrender.
Those Fig Tac values are not to high for what Im paying for planes in game now ?
I got Fig A6 D6 M4 C9 TAC A6 D4 M4 C10 pick piece Stg. B A8 D2 M6 C11 H. Bomb. A8 D2 M7 C12
You got Fig A6 D8 M4 C9 4 or less hits plane first and TAC A6 D6 4 or less pick piece. All planes from either side can retreat correct ?
@SS:
Those Fig Tac values are not to high for what Im paying for planes in game now ?
I got Fig A6 D6 M4 C9 TAC A6 D4 M4 C10 pick piece Stg. B A8 D2 M6 C11 H. Bomb. A8 D2 M7 C12
You got Fig A6 D8 M4 C9 4 or less hits plane first and TAC A6 D6 4 or less pick piece. All planes from either side can retreat correct ?
Do you play with a two-planes carrier? Or a Carrier which hold up to three Fg or TcB?
If you already play with a TCB A6 D4 pick piece. I’m fine with it. It is simpler your way, any hit work same way.
I thought you were using OOB values for Fg in D12.
It seems it is not the case.
Hence my question is about Carrier.
With Dark Sky strategy, it is already difficult to keep up fleet response against A8 bombers.
If you only have 2 Fgs D6 and Carrier D4 or D5, you are way more toasted playing Allies against Germany.
You can still play Fg 4 or less hits plane first, if you like.
It allows to keep the air combat dynamics.
It doesn’t change anything against bombers only attack against naval units however.
I only allowed attacking air retreat.
Did you play both side can air retreat? How many TTy can defender retreat?
On speed, if you already play with TacB picking piece, what was time-dragging compared to the older game with C5?
@Baron:
@SS:
Those Fig Tac values are not to high for what Im paying for planes in game now ?
I got Fig A6 D6 M4 C9 TAC A6 D4 M4 C10 pick piece Stg. B A8 D2 M6 C11 H. Bomb. A8 D2 M7 C12
You got Fig A6 D8 M4 C9 4 or less hits plane first and TAC A6 D6 4 or less pick piece. All planes from either side can retreat correct ?
Do you play with a two-planes carrier? Or a Carrier which hold up to three Fg or TcB?
Playing with 2 plane Carriers unless you get the Super Carrier tech which holds 3 figs.
If you already play with a TCB A6 D4 pick piece. I’m fine with it. It is simpler your way, any hit work same way.
I thought you were using OOB values for Fg in D12.
It seems it is not the case.
Hence my question is about Carrier.
With Dark Sky strategy, it is already difficult to keep up fleet response against A8 bombers.
If you only have 2 Fgs D6 and Carrier D4 or D5, you are way more toasted playing Allies against Germany.You can still play Fg 4 or less hits plane first, if you like.
It allows to keep the air combat dynamics.It doesn’t change anything against bombers only attack against naval units however.
I only allowed attacking air retreat.
Did you play both side can air retreat? How many TTy can defender retreat?Attacker only on retreat.
On speed, if you already play with TacB picking piece, what was time-dragging compared to the older game with C5?
Nothing as of now with mostly OOB prices. What slowed the game down with the C5 Bomber was the lower costs of pieces and the fighter changes that you had me test.
Thanks.
Help understand.
So what reason make you change Fg to A6 D6 C9?
Instead of well rounded C10, Fg A6 D8 C10?
@Baron:
Thanks.
Help understand.
So what reason make you change Fg to A6 D6 C9?
Instead of well rounded C10, Fg A6 D8 C10?Kept it simple. 9, 10, 11, 12. Could make fig C10 D7 for the extra 1 in cost.
@SS:
@Baron:
Thanks.
Help understand.
So what reason make you change Fg to A6 D6 C9?
Instead of well rounded C10, Fg A6 D8 C10?Kept it simple. 9, 10, 11, 12. Could make fig C10 D7 for the extra 1 in cost.
Don’t you feel it is broken?
Against A8 bombers or heavys.
If you only have 2 Fgs D6 and Carrier D4 or D5, you are way more toasted playing Allies against Germany.And for increasing speed, I would try to put Fg, TcB, StB, 10 IPCs and Heavy 12 IPCs.
Seems easier and faster to calculate.You have D12 on your side to make adjustments.
For example, StB A6 D2 M6-7 C10, Heavy A8 D2 M7-8 C12
TcB A6 D4 M4-5 C10 and Fg A6 D7 M4-5 C10.
@Baron:
@SS:
@Baron:
Thanks.
Help understand.
So what reason make you change Fg to A6 D6 C9?
Instead of well rounded C10, Fg A6 D8 C10?Kept it simple. 9, 10, 11, 12. Could make fig C10 D7 for the extra 1 in cost.
Don’t you feel it is broken?
Don’t know yet.
Against A8 bombers or heavys.I don’t like bombers A8 but then if I change it it slows game down do to lower Attack values for planes. Guys like the A8 A6 values for bomber and fig.
If you only have 2 Fgs D6 and Carrier D4 or D5, you are way more toasted playing Allies against Germany.Our games so far have no Germany bombers really attacking allies. In this game there is more Russian pieces so Germany focusing more there.
And for increasing speed, I would try to put Fg, TcB, StB, 10 IPCs and Heavy 12 IPCs.
Seems easier and faster to calculate.This I will put in game now and make Fig D7.
You have D12 on your side to make adjustments.
But I also added 8 planes per sides. Did your conversion. 3 figs = 1 fig and also made some figs Tacs because there weren’t any in game. i looked at a 39 setup and another 40 setup to see how many total planes were in those setups. Its nice to see the extra planes. doesn’t seem to offset nothing yet.
I have to decide if I’m going to add in game, roll a 4 or less for fig get to take a plane as a kill.
