After the final play testing has succesfully ended, the Desert Army will be part of the Axis & Allies Global 1940 House Rules Expansion under Optional Rules.
The Desert Army is also eligible for use with Global 1943.
OK. If anybody is interested in this. Barnee let me know how close I am to your d6 values for your tripla A tests.
D12 my game.
Fig C8 M5 AD@2 plane & AD@3 ship or AD@4 ground
N. Fig same as above but can only M4
Tac C10 M5 AD@1 plane & AD@4. Pick target
Dive same as above but only can M4
Stg. B C10 M6 AD@1 plane & A4@3 carpet bombing. D@2
BB C15 M2 AD@3 plane & AD@7 ship. Dam AD@2 plane & AD@5 ship.
CR C9 M3 AD@3 plane & AD@6 ship.
AC C14 M2 D@3 plane only. Dam D@1 plane only. 1 plane can land.
EC C8 M2 D@3 plane only.
DD C6 M2 AD@3 can only hit ships.
Interceptors & escorts AD@3
Bombers AD@1
US Fletcher Destroyer can buy on T3 42
US Fl DD C6 AD@1 plane & AD@3 ship
D8
Fig C9 AD@1 plane & AD@3 ship or AD@4 ground.
Tac C10 AD@1 plane & AD@3. Pick target.
BB C15 AD@1 plane & AD@5 ship. Dam Ad@1 & AD@4 ship.
CR C9 AD@1 plane & AD@4 ship.
AC C14 D@2 plane only. Dam D@1 plane only.
EC C8 D@2 plane only.
DD C6 AD@2 can only hit ships.
Interceptors escorts A@2 D@3
Bombers AD@1
D6
Fig C9 AD@1 plane & AD@2 ship or AD@3 ground
Tac C10 AD@1 plane & AD@2. Pick Target.
BB C15 AD@1 plane & AD@4 ship. Dam AD@1 plane & AD@2 ship.
CR C9 AD@1 plane & AD@3 ship.
DD C6 AD@2 Can only hit ships.
AC C14 D@2 plane only. Dam D@1 plane only.
Interceptors escorts AD@2
Bombers AD@1
There is no Dog Fighting. These values you use for each
round of combat. I have it where you can retreat attacking
and defending planes after 1 round of combat.
@SS-GEN
I’ll list what I have, but Idk that one can really compare them that well with the cost and behavior being so different on most of them. Anyway, I’ll give it a shot using your D6 list. While the mod mostly uses D6 there are some D12 and D10 involved in Ship AA and Planes Targeting Ships.
Only the Bomber and the DD are different price wise from global oob, although almost all have different capabilities. All movement is same as oob as well.
Ftr C10 A3 D4 boost Tac +1A when paired 1:1 Air Battle at 1 for Escort/Intercept
Targets BB, CA and CV for 1 Rd before regular combat hits at 1 in 12 Attack or Defense. Ships can only be Targeted by 1 Ftr, so 2 Ftrs 1 Ship only 1 shot. So for the extra buck, looks as if it’s slightly more powerful than what you have.
Tac C11 A3 +1A when paired with Ftr or Tank D3 Air Battle at 1 for Scramble/Bombing
Targets BB, CA, CV and Subs for 1 Rd before regular combat hits at 2 in 12 on Attack 1 in 12 on Defense. Ships can only be targeted once, same as Ftrs. They also give +1A to Inf and Mech Inf when paired 1:1. This a little harder to say. Even though your hitting at 2, I could see where being able to pick your target could be pretty powerful so Idk.
BB C20 A4 D4 Two Hit 1 AA shot that hits at 1 in 10 on Defense and 1 in 12 on Attack. Only 1 AA shot per Plane. Boosts CA +1A when paired 1:1. Only 1 AA shot per Plane. Can transport 1 Marine/Elite. I’d say the 15 dollar model probably a better deal. Shoots at the planes better and still hits at a 4 being undamaged. Probably makes for some interesting decisions on when you take the damage. Probably last resort usually ?
CA C12 A3 +1A when paired with BB D3 2 AA shots that hits at 1 in 10 on Defense and 1 in 12 on Attack. Only 1 AA shot per Plane. Can transport 1 Marine/Elite. 9 dollar CA probably a little better. There pretty close on the Planes, but once again, it’s really hard to say since they do different things.
Baron crunched the numbers for this guy. I think it works pretty good.
DD C5 A1 D1 1 preemptive ASA (AntiSubAttack) shot that hits at 2 out of 12. It shoots before Sub and if it Hits, Sub is immediately killed. Has 2 ASD shots that hit at 1 in 12. One fires when Sub moves into or through a SZ the DD is in, the other at the start of combat. Will also fire once in NCM if a Sub enters it’s zone. This is hard to say as well since they don’t block Subs any more. A 2 hittin DD for 6 bucks seems pretty powerful, but it can’t hit Planes and with CAs and BBs cheaper ? Idk
CV A0 D2 same as oob except can be targeted by Planes as mentioned above. This seems pretty close.
Black Elks idea. I find these a lot of fun too.
Bmbr is A0 C5. It can only Strat bomb. Can’t Air Battle either. That’s why Ftrs Air Battle at 1. Can’t be used as a Hit soaker in regular combat. What you have is fine.
Some things I had to do different than what was wanted due to triplea limitations. Primarily having 2 ASD shots for the Subs and the AA shots for the BB and CA hitting on the attack same as Planes targeting on the defense, so it’s a little messy in spots. Since triplea does everything anyway, I don’t find it to be that big a deal though.
So as I said above, I don’t think one can really compare the two by their stats. If you’re getting the desired behavior, better Fleet composition, more Air units but not overpowered, etc…then you should be good to go. :)
Ya I know of black elk going with the 5 icp bomber. Baron would Agee with me that some pieces just cost to much. Well it was just an idea and starting point. Doesn’t mean it totally will work unless tested as usual. Keep up the great work and tests.
As mentioned maybe a few things u can’t do on T A. These numbers work in my test game. I haven’t posted about it yet. I’ll post a small report and thoughts on it in a bit
@SS-GEN
yea I remember Baron going with a revamped price structure for ships and planes. Looks as if you have done something pretty similar. Guess i should see if i can still access my messages from the old site. Baron had crunched a pile of numbers that are worth saving
@barnee said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
@SS-GEN
yea I remember Baron going with a revamped price structure for ships and planes. Looks as if you have done something pretty similar. Guess i should see if i can still access my messages from the old site. Baron had crunched a pile of numbers that are worth saving
But these numbers are based on planes hitting planes too for what I listed. May not work in any game unless u revamp all pieces.
You every set up your play test too right n table top map ? So this way u can try it with out having to change on Triple A
@SS-GEN
yea i understand it’s plane against plane. I assume BB and CA are also shooting at the planes from what you posted. Would represent AA fire is what I thought. So 1 in 6 is a little more powerful than what I have and it only goes for 1 Rd, where you can retreat after 1 Rd or stay. So yea a bit different but that’s how i interpreted it.
And i agree, you have to take the full roster into account to make it work, the planes on planes that is. Eventually I want to add Baron’s price changes as an option and a D8 and D12 system as well. That’s quite a ways down the road though. That’s why this is a never ending project :)
I test on triplea exclusively. I’d need several extra lifetimes to get any thing done otherwise :) Everything can be played tabletop. No restrictions there. Perhaps I misunderstood you.
At any rate, just finished the latest update. Gonna try add Argos “Supply Token” next.
@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
But these numbers are based on planes hitting planes too for what I listed. May not work in any game unless u revamp all pieces.
You every set up your play test too right n table top map ? So this way u can try it with out having to change on Triple A
Ahh…I think I got ya now. Yea test it on the tabletop before adding it to triplea. Yea I could see it if it was a massive change (which this kinda is) it’d make sense, but triplea is so much faster and I continue to learn when I add to it, I really haven’t done that.
Edit
Seeing as how it’s already been tested by you somewhat, It’d be better just too add it and anyone interested could test then as well. I don’t think triplea can currently do all that you have right now though. Can take the general ideas and try and incorporate them but it’d be a bastardized version of sorts.
Right. I know Baron was testing the plane hit plane to on his game. But he also has cost changes. Will just have to wait till he chimes in. He’s on another honeymoon. Lol
@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
Right. I know Baron was testing the plane hit plane to on his game. But he also has cost changes. Will just have to wait till he chimes in. He’s on another honeymoon. Lol
Heh Heh Good for him :)
This is what I’m seeing so far with this new plane vs plane tests.
More to come.
@SS-GEN
Excellent ! Sounds as if it’s going real well. Yea the Ftr might be a little tricky, but everything looks real good.
Show down at the Generals Fortress Saturday.
Barnee and anybody else interested in outcome. We will be doing the new plane vs plane with changed values.
Last two games we did the BB & CR getting plane shots same time as ship shots on A and D. That went great with 1 round of mandatory dog fight in every battle. So we going with now in game.
BB C15 AD@2 plane & AD@8 ship
CR C9 M3 AD@2 plane & AD@7 ship
DD C6 AD@3 ships only.
AC C14 D@3 planes only 1 dam D@1 plane
Fig C8 M5 AD@2 plane & AD@4 Gr or ship
N. Fig C8 M4 AD@2 plane & AD@4 Gr or ship
Tac C10 M5 AD@1 plane & AD@4 pick target
Dive C10 M4 AD@1 plane & AD@4 pick target
Stg bomber C10 M6 AD@1 plane
No more 1 round of mandatory dog fighting.
Now all pieces will be A and D for all rounds of combat.
Escorts & Interceptors
Fig/N Fig AD@3
Tac/Dive AD@1
Stg B AD@1
Fighters gain the +1 due to only engaging in air combat. This option could change. Because why is planes vs planes for all rounds in normal battles but not for SBR raids. Ha. You could have 1 round of air combat. Then surviving stg and Tac/Dive do there raids then have to counter or when leaving raid have to incounter 1 more round of air combat if the interceptors didn’t retreat.
Yes all planes can retreat after 1 round of combat in game.
Big debate now is defending planes from carriers and ground territories can’t retreat.
Group is not keen on defending planes getting to retreat.
The hardest piece to adjust for this is the figs.
Now they AD@4. A defending Inf is equal. But ton of planes were lost in war and they are to strong in game. The Tac/Dive bomber now is the huge plane and Cruiser.
One other discussion before game is if we add for every 3 destroyers you get 1 plane shot per round @1 or @2.
Will be looking at Inf going to D@3. In game.
After some play testing these are a few things to consider. Mostly the bigger battles take a bit longer.
SS Out !
Barnee Barnee Barnee and any body else.
WE played game. Allies win. Guys liked the plane vs plane every round of combat.
Couple of things and we made some changes for next game and hopefully this is it.
BB C15 AD@3 plane & AD@8 ship.
CR C9 M3 AD@3 plane & AD@7 ship.
AC C14 D@3 plane only.
EC C10 D@2 plane only.
DD C6 AD@3 ship or AD@3 ship & D@1 plane if destroyer or destroyers are alone.
Fig C8 AD@2 plane & AD@5.
N Fig C8 AD@2 plane & AD@4.
Tac & Dive C10 AD@1 plane & AD@5. 3 or less can pick target.
Escorts & Interceptors. Fig /N.Fig AD@3 Tac /Dive AD@1 Stg. B AD@1
So we go from here. Some may not think this works but it does in my game.
If I ever get the ambition I’ll bust out the G40 game and add house rules to it to eliminate the bid plus the Mech Tank Japan blitz and make at least Mongolia Pro - Russian and bring at least half of those Russian inf in Siberia to Moscow on setup.
SS OUT !
After more discussions will post a couple changes here with ship plane rosters in a bit
I’m editing this post now with the changes and I will edit the above post too to correct or change Destroyer and Tac / N Dive
Destroyers as of now
AD@3 ship. If alone with attacking planes gets a D@1 plane shot only time. This is still up in the air.
Tac and Dive went to AD@5 & roll a 3 or less can pick target.
As I’ve said if I did many discussions going on about the destroyer getting as shot at a plane.
They had anti aircraft guns on ships so they at least should get a plane shot on there own.
Could also make it if you take 3 destroyer casualties you get 1 plane shot @2. On A or D.
Hard to convince some but as I mentioned,
Like the French battles ship had 56. 40mm aa guns plus 2 other smaller groups of aa guns. Got to be able to hit a plane or 2 in a battle.
SS out !
Discussion continue here at this link from now on.
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/33862/ss-gen-s-1941-42-global-war-game