Global War 1940 2nd ed.

Most are working in this game anyway.
Ha ha Barnee has just recently been involved.

So only a couple rounds in but I sense a problem for cruiser AA. Even though I’ve noticed it peripherally and have been using it for quite a while, when one sends all air against a CA, odds aren’t good. If CA has fodder, odds go way down.

OOB box game is pretty much the same and usually one does have fodder, but I think the BB is gonna lose it’s AA completely and might even drop the CA back to 1 shot. Definitely will if gets boosted to A4 with BB, which I haven’t really tried out yet.
Guess you could boost the cost a buck too if they seem overpowered. Too bad Baron not around. He always enjoyed a math puzzle : ).
I’ll probably set up multiple options .

Yea having the airbattle for 1 rd is something I need to explore more. The way it works on triplea ( at least last I checked, which has been a while ) was whoever had air superiority either obliterated the other or you stayed grounded/didn’t attack.

I think there’s a way to lower the odds before regular combat air battle now, so it wouldn’t be so risky if outnumbered.

Being able to target a planes first hit on naval unit of choice would help with both oob and cruiser AA.
Pretty sure that’s roughly how you do it. I’ll have to reread some of your stuff. I know Baron always advocated for that option. In land/air battles in some form as well.

Anyway might not be too huge a issue, as one usually has fodder and oob doesn’t really simulate all air against naval with fodder and no air either.

Of course I could be totally missing something too heh heh

@barnee What is your Cruiser value/rule ?
Does your Cruiser get a ship shot too ?
What you mean by lone Cruiser attacked by planes only ?

Cruiser needs to get a shot at a plane or ship every round. Chooses plane or ship.
Here’s my plane rule.

1 round of Dog Fight. Attacker can retreat planes only after a Dog Fight
and defender scrambles plane only. Defender can’t retreat planes.
All attacking and defending planes can retreat after 1 round of combat
from naval and ground attacks.

I have Cruiser A4 D4 C10 M3 at a plane or ship each round of combat.
I raised cost 1 Icp for now. Will do some opening naval testing attacks in my game for
the normal turn 1 stuff before game in 10 days.
Cruiser D12 system
Old value
Cruiser C9 A7 D7 1.04 58%
New Value
Cruiser C10 A4 D4 .48 33% I just started at half for now that cruiser can hit plane also every round.
Cruiser C10 A3 D3 .36 25% Can lower to this also if need be.
Your D6 Cruiser
Old Cruiser
Cruiser C12 A3 D3 .50 50% See the d12 1.04 and d6 .50 that tells you d6 cost is to high for the bang.
New Cruiser
Cruiser C12 A2 D2 .33 33%. Can take hit on a plane or ship every round of combat.
Cruiser C12 A1 D1 .17 16.7% This is to weak.
My D12 new Cruiser is still stronger than D6 new cruiser in cost for the punch. Even though the hit % is the same
it shows my Cruiser is cheaper for same hit %.

Another option could try is
D6 Cruiser C12 A3 D3 M3 SHS 2 Any roll of @1 can take a hit on a plane for every round of combat.
D12 Cruiser C10 A7 D7 M3 SHS 3 Any roll of @2 or less can take a hit on a plane every round of combat.
D6 Cruiser A3 D3 50% against Naval or AA @1 16% against a plane every round of combat.
D6 Cruiser A2 D2 33% against naval or a plane every round of combat.
I feel Shore shots for D6 should be
Battleship @3
Cruiser @2
Destroyers @1

Toying on AA Capacity: giving to Naval Fighter
you may look at them (D12) so to use a same combat value in all context.
And allows for a much higher attrition rate amongst aircraft due to lower cost.

Naval Fighter C7 A3 D4 M4-5 (0.73 , 0.98), same value in dogfight and hits aircraft first in regular combat.

Naval Dive Bomber C7 A4 D3 M4-5 (0.98 , 0.73), pick target for each successful hit.
Dogfight values might be A2 D1, for instance.

Land-based Fighter C8 A4 D4 M5-6 (0.75 , 0.75), same value in dogfight and hits aircraft first in regular combat.

Tactical bomber C8 A5 D4 M5-6 (0.94 , 0.75), pick target for each successful hit.
Dogfight values might be better, so A2 D2 or A3 D2.

Fleet Carrier can remains C14 A2 D4 M2-3, 2 hits.

To adjust set up:
Example, 10 Naval Fighters C10 A5 D7 C10 = 100 IPCs, A50 D70 for 10 hits=
Sum: A500 (/3) D700 (/4) to convert into C7 A3 D4 = A166.67 D175 square roots of each = 12.9 vs 13.23 so, it is around 13 units.

So, you need to add 3 Fighters into this initial set up of 10 Naval Fighters.

To provide the same cover at sea, you may decide to put in SZ, 1 additional Carrier to hold for the additional Naval Fighters and place 1 last into a scramble SZ within reach of carriers.

Same ratio of 10 to 13 for Naval Dive bomber.

10 Tactical bombers C11 A7 D5 = 110 IPCs, A70 D50 for 10 hits=
Sum: A700 (/5) D500 (/4) to convert into C8 A5 D4 = A140 D125 square roots of each = 11.8 vs 11.3 so, it is around 12 or 11 units.
So, you need to add 2 Tac Bombers into this initial set up of 10 Tactical bombers. A simpler rate of 1 additional TcB for each 5 initial on the setup.

Let me ask you this. You are saying lower values and cost to get more planes in game. Ok I get that.
You also want more planes in game due to a lot of planes were shot down plus also can take a plane now for fodder ?

What about countries that have only 1 or 2 figs or 1 fig 1 Tac on setup.
US Japan benefit the most. UK London would at least get 1 extra fig.

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

Let me ask you this. You are saying lower values and cost to get more planes in game. Ok I get that.
You also want more planes in game due to a lot of planes were shot down plus also can take a plane now for fodder ?

What about countries that have only 1 or 2 figs or 1 fig 1 Tac on setup.
US Japan benefit the most. UK London would at least get 1 extra fig.

In my own game, I bend the conversion in favor of minor power.
1 or 2 Fighter received 1 additional, 1 Fg & 1 TcB get another aircraft…
Which type is according to what fit the better narrative.
Since you have 4 types, you may chose to balance with one type over the other.

Also, you may decide to converte with the lower ratio with Japan and Germany.
Instead of 3 additional for 10 Naval Fighter, it can be only 2.

However, due to lower cost of aircraft, Allies are going to built more at a faster rate with their economy.

Ok I’ll keep this in mind. It be a big change to game. I still have a few weeks to look at. I’ll see what changes it will have on setup for my game

Is there still a DF round first ?

@SS-GEN
In my game, there is none for simplicity.
Fighter are aiming at other aircraft.
Tacbombers are aiming at ground or naval.
So, if you need to protect TcB, bring Fighters.

However, DF phase can still have a part.
It allows TcBs to fire at aircraft once.
Probably more balance that way.

Ya. I think if I did a change for now or a bit later I would just keep stuff the same but have the lowered values for planes and add to setup.
With US and Japan getting 1 more Carrier each.

If both figs hot air craft first then I don’t see a need for a DF with figs. Just give Tac and Bomb a One round DF roll before the combat round starts.

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

If both figs hot air craft first then I don’t see a need for a DF with figs. Just give Tac and Bomb a One round DF roll before the combat round starts.

I never thought about this special mechanic that way.
You are right, giving a 1 time AA roll for TcB and Bomber in addition to the regular combat.
The only exception is about not giving a preemptive strike on enemy’s aircraft with that roll, meaning that you don’t remove immediately casualties from this roll.

From a designer POV, it is harder, but possible, to formulate into a special stage within regular combat.

Another way to handle this, is giving a specific coloured D12 dice for AA of StB and TcB would solve the issue allowing to roll both dice at same time but treating the AA coloured accordingly.

In fact, I usually roll first step of combat all Fighters either offense and defense, in that regard I can add TcB and StBombers AA roll during the first combat round, then allowing TcB and StB to roll again for their specific “pick target” or “carpet bombing” dice.

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

Ya. I think if I did a change for now or a bit later I would just keep stuff the same but have the lowered values for planes and add to setup.
With US and Japan getting 1 more Carrier each.

From my playtests, it becomes an evidence that all Powers were drastically loosing OFF/DEF Punch and were affected during at least first and second turn of play. Of course, if your setup is already customized (mine was based on AA50 or 1942.2 OOB) you will judge from playtest if not adding units still provide an interesting balanced gameflow.

I would at least play test after the 2 games coming up in June. Always open to changes for the better. I mentioned this to another group member and are all for lowering the values for fig and Tac , dive planes. Just have to figure out what planes can hit what planes and if I don’t need the DF round for figs and naval fig planes And tacs dive and bombers get a DF roll.
I do have all A and D planes can retreat after 1 round of combat but that is with a DF round first and planes getting shot at for 1 round from cruisers before they can retreat.

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

I would at least play test after the 2 games coming up in June. Always open to changes for the better. I mentioned this to another group member and are all for lowering the values for fig and Tac , dive planes. Just have to figure out what planes can hit what planes and if I don’t need the DF round for figs and naval fig planes And tacs dive and bombers get a DF roll.
I do have all A and D planes can retreat after 1 round of combat but that is with a DF round first and planes getting shot at for 1 round from cruisers before they can retreat.

The principle behind lower cost and values I suggested, is to keep the same abilities for each aircraft but make the combat value so a hit imply also the special capacity.
The idea is there is no separate “7” to “5” is only a hit, “4” to “1” is a hit and allows pick target.

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

I have Cruiser A4 D4 C10 M3 at a plane or ship each round of combat.

Toying about the two coloured D12, and if all Fighters are hitting directly aircraft.
A way to boost Cruiser in that case, can be to add another dice to treat as a regular hit in combat.

For instance, Cruiser A8 (0.96) D8 (0.96) C10 M3, 1@4 at a plane AND 1@4 each round of combat.

Compared to Destroyer A3 (1.00) D3 (1.00) C6 M2.
You get a similar combat value for cost.

While Battleship A9 (1.26) D9 (1.26) C15 with 2 hits (1.26)

Seems a correct increase in strength.

Yes if I have this right. For every round of combat for a cruiser your saying is
D12. A8 D8 any roll of 4 or less can put hit towards a plane. ?

But I only raised the cruiser cost to 10 instead of 9 with my new cruiser values so how does
Cruiser C9 A7 D7 roll 3 or less hit goes towards a plane for every round of combat

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

Yes if I have this right. For every round of combat for a cruiser your saying is
D12. A8 D8 any roll of 4 or less can put hit towards a plane. ?

Not exactly.
I imply that every “4” or less means a hit for a Cruiser.
Then, gives to A/D Cruiser a green “D12” die and a blue sky “D12” die.
Now you can totally play according to your thematic that Cruiser were good at AA but not only against aircraft. Cruiser still have a few big turrets.
For instance, assumed blue die is for aircraft and the green die for any unit.
Each time a Cruiser is rolling, you roll the 2 dice.
Let’s suppose 4 cases:
A) blue and green rolled both “5” or up. No casualty.
B) blue is “4” or less, green is “5” or up. Owner’s have to choose an aircraft.
C) blue is “5” or up, green is “4” or less. Owner’s choose anyone unit as casualty.
D) blue is “4” or less, green is “4” or less. Meaning two hits.
Owner’s have to choose an aircraft AND choose another unit as casualty.

You can even apply a similar feature of 2 D12 dice for Battleship.
Assuming BB are A9 D9 C15 2hits, just split: @4 vs aircraft, then @5 for any unit.

And because Cruiser are cheaper than Battleship, you get a better AA capacity for your bucks with Cruiser: 6 Cruiser giving 6AA@4 (10 IPCs) vs 4 Battleship giving 4AA@4 (15 IPCs), same way than Shore bombardment are better with Cruiser.

@baron-Münchhausen said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

Yes if I have this right. For every round of combat for a cruiser your saying is
D12. A8 D8 any roll of 4 or less can put hit towards a plane. ?

Not exactly.
I imply that every “4” or less means a hit for a Cruiser.
Then, gives to A/D Cruiser a green “D12” die and a blue sky “D12” die.
Now you can totally play according to your thematic that Cruiser were good at AA but not only against aircraft. Cruiser still have a few big turrets.
For instance, assumed blue die is for aircraft and the green die for any unit.
Each time a Cruiser is rolling, you roll the 2 dice.
Let’s suppose 4 cases:
A) blue and green rolled both “5” or up. No casualty.
B) blue is “4” or less, green is “5” or up. Owner’s have to choose an aircraft.
C) blue is “5” or up, green is “4” or less. Owner’s choose anyone unit as casualty.
D) blue is “4” or less, green is “4” or less. Meaning two hits.
Owner’s have to choose an aircraft AND choose another unit as casualty.

You can even apply a similar feature of 2 D12 dice for Battleship.
Assuming BB are A9 D9 C15 2hits, just split: @4 vs aircraft, then @5 for any unit.

Ok I see what your saying now. But I don’t agree totally on a Battleship getting close to the same for hitting a plane. BB didnt shot down that many planes and besides there 's not that many in game. Maybe go with @3 plane and @6 ship.
I like this.
Cruiser C9 A@3 Blue die plane hit A@4 red die Ship hit.
BB C15 A@3 Blue die plane hit A@6 red die ship hit.