Global War 1940 2nd ed.

Tac Bomber  : Cannot land on Carriers.
A7 Can pick target with a return shot. Ground only. (0.69)
D5 Can pick target with a return shot. Ground only. (0.50)
M5
C11
Dog Fight @1
SBR 1d8 damage (Air - Naval ports, Train Stations and Oil Derricks)
AA Gun D@1

Naval Dive Bomber  : Can land on Carriers and ground.
A7 Roll 4 or less can pick target with a return shot (0.84)
D5 (0.60)
M4
C10
SBR 1d8 damage ( Air - Naval ports, Oil Derricks)
AA Gun D@1

Naval Fighter  : Can land anywhere.
A5 (0.60)
D7 (0.84)
M4
C10
Dog Fight @3
AA Gun @2

Fighter
A6 (0.60)
D7 (0.69)
M5
C11
Dog Fight@3
AA Gun D@2

Looking at your aircraft values, I realized your aircraft are under G40 OOB values.
So, I don’t see why you would not increase Land-Based Aircraft to OOB values, since land-based are at +1 IPC.

Tac Bomber  : Cannot land on Carriers.
A8 Can pick target with a return shot. Ground only.  (0.79)
D6 Can pick target with a return shot. Ground only. (0.60)
M5
C11
Dog Fight @1
SBR 1d8 damage (Air - Naval ports, Train Stations and Oil Derricks)
AA Gun D@1

Fighter
A6  (0.60)
D8 (0.79)
M5
C11
Dog Fight@3
AA Gun D@2

@Baron:

Tac Bomber  : Cannot land on Carriers.
A7 Can pick target with a return shot. Ground only. (0.69)
D5 Can pick target with a return shot. Ground only. (0.50)
M5
C11
Dog Fight @1
SBR 1d8 damage (Air - Naval ports, Train Stations and Oil Derricks)
AA Gun D@1

Naval Dive Bomber  : Can land on Carriers and ground.
A7 Roll 4 or less can pick target with a return shot (0.84)
D5 (0.60)
M4
C10
SBR 1d8 damage ( Air - Naval ports, Oil Derricks)
AA Gun D@1

Naval Fighter  : Can land anywhere.
A5 (0.60)
D7 (0.84)
M4
C10
Dog Fight @3
AA Gun @2

Fighter
A6 (0.60)
D7 (0.69)
M5
C11
Dog Fight@3
AA Gun D@2

Looking at your aircraft values, I realized your aircraft are under G40 OOB values.
So, I don’t see why you would not increase Land-Based Aircraft to OOB values, since land-based are at +1 IPC.

Tac Bomber  : Cannot land on Carriers.
A8 Can pick target with a return shot. Ground only.  (0.79)
D6 Can pick target with a return shot. Ground only. (0.60)
M5
C11
Dog Fight @1
SBR 1d8 damage (Air - Naval ports, Train Stations and Oil Derricks)
AA Gun D@1

Fighter
A6  (0.60)
D8 (0.79)
M5
C11
Dog Fight@3
AA Gun D@2

Ya. They were your suggestions from a previous post.

Of course, “Can pick target with a return shot.” is not considered here.
Hence, your Land-based TcB can be already at is right values.

However, Land-based Fighter have no such ability.
I know you want to make Land-based over Naval Fighter as much different as possible.

Hi,
here is a revised version according to your updated values.
I corrected the 2 cells on sheet.

I tried my suggestion above on it.

You would have to correct to return back to your original values.

ENIGMA_Vann formula_Cost vs Odds_Roster charts_D6_D8_D12_D10.xls

We raised the cost for Tac and Fig based on the M4 to M5 and the D from Tac D4 to D5 and fig from D6 to D7.
I think only change needed is the Naval fig to D6 instead of 7.

I havent looked closely at planes numbers yet. Ill look at in a bit. Got some time before game starts this morning.

As I said in past trying to get planes more towatds history.

We gave the Tac and Dive bombers that special abilities for single attack on a particular piece in a group of planes.
But if only Tac and Dive Bombers can Attack a AAA gun then being a single plane attack instead of a group of planes then the AAA gets its shot at plane first then Tac or Dive bomber need to roll a 4 or less to kill AAA gun.

@SS:

We raised the cost for Tac and Fig based on the M4 to M5 and the D from Tac D4 to D5 and fig from D6 to D7.
I think only change needed is the Naval fig to D6 instead of 7.

I havent looked closely at planes numbers yet. Ill look at in a bit. Got some time before game starts this morning.

As I said in past trying to get planes more towatds history.

Actually, aircraft does not need to change in your game, from a game pace and easy flow, it is better to let them be as they are. It let people get use to units values and don’t need to adjust to too many between each of your game.

Also, if you wanted that aircraft being less OP than G40,  you are within the correct cost structure.

What I just realized is that at 10 to 11 IPCs, this high cost makes unchanged combat values (either off or def) weaker strength for Land-based aircraft.  
And rising 1 pips keeps a similar strength between 10 IPCs Naval vs 11 IPCs Land-based.

However I forgot to consider the special AAA mechanics thoroughly and the impact of  TacBomber rolls being entirely a selecting target roll. This last one might be enough in itself to not make TcB to much OP compared to Naval DiveBomber, which is only 1 to 4 for picking target. Does the difference  have an impact ? This is your game-play which would tell.

This the easiest way.
Tac C11
A7 .69  D5 .50

Dive C11
A7 .69  D5 .50

Fig  C11
A6  .60  D7 .69

N. fig C11
A6 .60  D6 .60

@SS:

We raised the cost for Tac and Fig based on the M4 to M5 and the D from Tac D4 to D5 and fig from D6 to D7.
I think only change needed is the Naval fig to D6 instead of 7.

I havent looked closely at planes numbers yet. Ill look at in a bit. Got some time before game starts this morning.

As I said in past trying to get planes more towatds history.

Because 10 and 11 IPCs are closer to 12 and you are using D12s and benchmark was for 12 IPCs unit, this make rising cost by 1 IPC and rising combat values by 1 pips all off or def strength close to be same.

If I remember, rising Naval Fighter to D7 (still 1 pip below G40 Fg) was because Full Carrier defense was pretty weak compared to all Naval offensive capacity. Giving this additional defense pips was also to compensate for the DiveB capacity to select target. Naval Fighter is a pretty bare unit with no special ability.

@SS:

This the easiest way.
Tac C11
A7 .69   D5 .50

Dive C11
A7 .69   D5 .50

Fig  C11
A6  .60  D7 .69

N. fig C11
A6 .60  D6 .60

But you are loosing the distinctive trade-off 10 IPCs is basic 4 move, 11 IPCs is 5 move.
(And a sweet 10 IPCs spot in cost structure.)

It blurs the difference  between land or naval and makes Carriers  weaker due to +2 IPCs cost increase.

Naval fighting on land will not be less impactful than land only planes.
But historically speaking, not having to be limited by shorter landing and take-off airfield allows for greater capacity.

Between two units with similar function and different cost, I rather keep the same strength but increase combat values (DD, Cruiser, BB balancing), so purchasing option are clean. You get the same per IPCs invested. More IPCs don’t mean stronger, just different combat values so to keep balance.

Otherwise victory oriented people will chose stronger units in most cases.
Like MIs over Tank in G40, because MIs def is stronger, for IPCs invested.
DDs over Cruiser and BBs.
Fgs over TcBs, in G40.
Most of time, it is the cheaper which is stronger, but this extend to even cost of course.

Im just leaving it where its at.

@SS:

Im just leaving it where its at.

I agree, more playtests will eventually says where there a tweak will be needed.

What are you going to do with Battleship? 15 or 16 IPCs?

This might be the only case where the most expensive can be stronger than any other due to high IPCs invested. In addition, you cannot conquer land with it anyway.

@Baron:

@SS:

Im just leaving it where its at.

I agree, more playtests will eventually says where there a tweak will be needed.

What are you going to do with Battleship? 15 or 16 IPCs?

This might be the only case where the most expensive can be stronger than any other due to high IPCs invested. In addition, you cannot conquer land with it anyway.

Battleship
A9  A6 shore
D9
M2
C15  2 hits

And what are your carrier values?

I will note both in my Excel file.

@Baron:

And what are your carrier values?

I will note both in my Excel file.

Air Craft Carrier
A2
D4
M2
C14  2 hits

I added it to the list.

I don’t fully understand the aircraft AA gun roll.
Is it for SBR only?
Is it for both SBR and regular combat?
Can you please develop a bit the game mechanic. (I read a few previous posts, but it is fragmentary.)

Your AAguns values are?
I think they work both in SBR and reg combat, you don’t have in built IC’s  AAA.
So, the same AAgun may fire twice in a given turn: SBR phase and resolve combat phase.

Give me all details so I will include in my sheet.

Naval Dive Bomber  : Can land on Carriers and ground.
A7 Roll 4 or less can pick target with a return shot
D5
M4
C10
SBR 1d8 damage ( Air - Naval ports, Oil Derricks)
SBR AA gun only A4 
AA Gun D@1

This one has no dogfight value and no special roll on defense.

I think it is incomplete.

@SS:

@SS:

@SS:

@SS:

@SS:

@SS:

@SS:

Med. Bomber
A 4d12s @2 ground only every round
A 2d12s @2 naval only every round
D 1d12  @2
M6
C10
Dog Fight @1
SBR 1d8 +1 damage

H. Bomber
A 3d12s @3 ground only every round
A 2d12s @3naval only every round
D 1d12   @3
M7
C12
Dog Fight @2
SBR 1d10 +1 damage
AA Gun D@1 against ea H Bomb

Tac Bomber  : Cannot land on Carriers.
A7 Can pick target with a return shot. Ground only.
D5 Can pick target with a return shot. Ground only.
M5
C11
Dog Fight @1
SBR 1d8 damage (Air - Naval ports, Train Stations and Oil Derricks)
SBR Kills AA gun on a roll of 4 or less
AA Gun D@1 against ea Tac Bomb

Naval Dive Bomber  : Can land on Carriers and ground.
A7 Roll 4 or less can pick target with a return shot
D5 Roll of 3 or less pick target with a return shot
M4
C10
Dog Fight @1
SBR 1d8 damage ( Air - Naval ports, Oil Derricks)
SBR Kills AA gun on a roll of 4 or less
AA Gun D@1 against ea Dive Bomb

Naval Fighter  : Can land anywhere.
A5
D7
M4
C10
Dog Fight @3

Fighter
A6
D7
M5
C11
Dog Fight@3

AA Gun
A0
D@2 at each plane
D@1 at ea H Bomb, Tac & Dive Bomb
M1
C5

Air Transport
A0
D0
M5
C10  Can transport 2 Elites or 2 Paratroopers or 1 Elite 1 Paratrooper in combat and any combination of 2 inf or 1 inf 1 art in non combat.

Ger. Grenadiar build 2 starting T2
A4
D4
M2
C4
Can Blitz

SS Panzer build 2 starting T2
A7
D6
M2
C7

Tiger Tank build 1 starting T3
A7
D7
M2
C9 2 hits

IS-1 Russia build 2 starting T3
A7
D7
M2
C7

Elite Inf
A4
D2
M1
C3    Build 2 only per turn. NA for US-Italy can build 3 a turn

Paratroopers
A2-3  A3 FSR only on AMP ASS
D4
M1
C3     Paratrooper Tech- Can air transport 3 Paratroopers

Subs
A5  FS
D2
M2
C7

Battleships
A9
D9
M2
C15   2 hits

Cruisers
A7
D7
M3
C9

Destroyers
A3
D3
M2
C6

Carrier
A2
D4
M2
C14   2 hits

Transport
A0
D1 plane only if not casualty
M2
C7
ES2 only if Trans is alone

Japan doesnt receive H. Bombers.

This has been updated.  April 16,  2018

These values are for next game. We will see if H Bomber A against navy is to strong.

Does Fighter and Naval Fighter lose Anti-AAgun roll?
AA Gun D@2 ?

Naval Fighter  : Can land anywhere.
A5
D7
M4
C10
Dog Fight @3

Fighter
A6
D7
M5
C11
Dog Fight@3

I completed your D12s sheet, and correct a few cells with wrong references… Sorry

I put in yellow high and low numbers in Naval roster.

Looking at how Carrier is weak compared to other unit like DD or Cruiser, I tried a few things.
Like increasing Carrier defense or lowering Naval planes cost.

It seems that lowering Naval to 9 IPCs and Land-based to 10 IPCs might be an interesting possibility.
That way the best full Carrier with 2 Fighters reach (1.00), the same as Destroyer.

Maybe, expensive full Carrier compared to strength might give an harder time to UK and USA.
I’m just talking.
There is probably other factors in game which might compensate for weaker full Carrier, like Cruiser M3 which outweighs this limitation. And also, USA has more money to spent, so overall adding a few warships around Carriers to protect them is easier to do for US Navy.

Happy game.
;)

ENIGMA_Vann formula_Cost vs Odds_Roster charts_D6_D8_D12_D10.xls

@Baron:

Does Fighter and Naval Fighter lose Anti-AAgun roll?
AA Gun D@2 ?

Naval Fighter  : Can land anywhere.
A5
D7
M4
C10
Dog Fight @3

Fighter
A6
D7
M5
C11
Dog Fight@3

I completed your D12s sheet, and correct a few cells with wrong references… Sorry

I put in yellow high and low numbers in Naval roster.

Looking at how Carrier is weak compared to other unit like DD or Cruiser, I tried a few things.
Like increasing Carrier defense or lowering Naval planes cost.

It seems that lowering Naval to 9 IPCs and Land-based to 10 IPCs might be an interesting possibility.
That way the best full Carrier with 2 Fighters reach (1.00), the same as Destroyer.

Maybe, expensive full Carrier compared to strength might give an harder time to UK and USA.
I’m just talking.
There is probably other factors in game which might compensate for weaker full Carrier, like Cruiser M3 which outweighs this limitation. And also, USA has more money to spent, so overall adding a few warships around Carriers to protect them is easier to do for US Navy.

Happy game.
;)

AA still shoots at them. I just left the @1 for other planes on list so there was 2 places of reference.

Ok.
I did not understand that subtle difference.
AAA gun shot @2 vs Fighter and Medium bomber

but shot @1 vs Heavy and Tc Bombers, right?

And there is only TcB which get a responding fire against AA gun fire during SBR.

Nothing else, right?