@SS:
OK, will go with these changes. Thank You for your time and replies.
I know we had AAA guns C3 and Figs C6 but will change theses also to AAA C4 Figs C7.
I will also use the Stg Bomber values when there’s ground combat too. A2 at plane or A6 at non plane.
I’ll have Tacs do the same thing as a Stg Bomber. 1 roll Attacker choice A2 at a plane or A6 at non plane piece.
Fine.
I still have doubt for mixing two rolls for TacBs. It is adding unnecessary complexity (game POV).
It was not historically accurate: many TcBs were able to dogfight, not all but many.
StBs and HStBs will be a case in themselves.
Fg A4 D4 against TcBs A6 D4.
On offense Fg A4 (hit Tac) vs TcB D4 (can only pick ground)
On defense Fg D4 (hit Tac) vs TcBs A6 (can only pick ground, not air) usually this make the case.
OK. Will go with these changes. I’ll hopefully get you some more results soon.
Thank You Baron.
Now with Oslo being a Germany victory city, we are trying a few things to not make Germany have to send to many troops to Norway to hold by land and pretty hard to send by transports.
So will put in game sea mines off the coast of Western France where Naval gets a -1 on attack the first round and planes -1 on land attacks for first round do to missing by 3 miles on first wave of landing.
Also will place 4 land mines in Western France for the Germans. When US-UK land there, they will lose 4 inf before battles.
Still testing this balance where I don’t want to add a IC in Norway.
I found the Italian general Leaders list. With that info and 2 more sheets of generals info I’m going to try where commanders get a reroll on A & D. This is what I have for now.
Germany
Rommel - 3 rerolls for 2 tanks, 1 art.
Manstein - 3 rerolls for 2 tanks, 1 art.
Gunerian - 2 rerolls for 2 tanks, 1 art.
Runstedt - 2 rerolls for 2 tanks, 1 art.
Italy
Kesselring - 2 rerolls for 1 tank, 1 art
Badoglio - 1 reroll for 1 art.
Japan
Russia
Rokossowsku - 2 rerolls for 2 tanks.
Zhukov - 2 rerolls for 2 tanks.
Koniev - 2 rerolls for 1 tank, 1 art.
UK
Montgomery - 2 rerolls for 1 tank, 1 art.
Alexander - 1 reroll for 1 art.
US
Patton - 3 rerolls for 2 tanks, 1 art.
Bradley - 2 rerolls for 1 tank, 1 art.
Macarthur - 2 rerolls for 1 art, 1 inf.
If the commanders first go to pieces are not available then they just go down the list.
Tanks Battleships
SP Art Cruisers
Art Destroyers
Mechs Air Carriers
Inf
Axis = 10 Allies = 9 Commanders
Boy, sorry for the hack job.
All countries start game with these Commanders and can place Admirals with any naval fleet they want and all ground Commanders have to start in a Capital or Victory city. They can retreat after first round of combat. They can retreat only 1 space so beware where your commander is going. Once you lose commander, you don’t get any back in game.
Commander can move 2 spaces with a motorized unit. Ground Commanders A2 D5.
Play testing a new game Sunday.
Thanks IL for some of this info.
Still undecided if I’m going to use what is on list with the commanders and whether they defend or attack only/both or with there special events. Don’t want it to be getting away from KISS affect.
Like all 4 Russian commanders on list get 3 rerolls for pieces. Will see what happens.
Zukov gets a +1 on A & D for 3 tanks. Wow.
We started a new test game with some of Baron’s mods. Got 2 turns in. Pics of Atlantic and Pacific.
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With the Fighters costing 7 and (D12) A4 D4 is making a difference in game so far for land. We’ve had many rounds of combat going 1 to 4 rounds longer do to Figs not getting attacks and defends at 6.
Tac Bombers have had only a few battles where the Tac picks the piece on hit. Both times they took a tank. Had one naval battle with a Tac hitting a Battleship on its pick target shot. But the naval battle was more stronger on attack then defend so it didn’t really matter in that battle.
Baron, I see Black Elk and LHoffman are not in favor of the Tac hit get to pick a piece every round of battle. Will see how that goes further in game. ( maybe only use get to pick piece on hit 1st round only ).
SBR’s have not happened yet in game to test the IC AA get defense rolls.
As far as Oslo being a victory city we will need to test it in more games. As you can see UK has landed in Norway. With the subs in the Atlantic for Germany, they have the NA of for every German sub in Atlantic, subtract 1 icp from UK’s collect income phase and US’s income collect phase. So that helps delay the invasion I hope.
Commanders in game with the ranking of 1 to 3 giving piece rerolls on misses are making a less impact on battles than last game where we had Commander ranks of 3 to 6 and gave a piece +1 on Attack and defense for every round unless Commander retreated.
@SS:
With the Fighters costing 7 and (D12) A4 D4 is making a difference in game so far for land. We’ve had many rounds of combat going 1 to 4 rounds longer do to Figs not getting attacks and defends at 6.
Tac Bombers have had only a few battles where the Tac picks the piece on hit. Both times they took a tank. Had one naval battle with a Tac hitting a Battleship on its pick target shot. But the naval battle was more stronger on attack then defend so it didn’t really matter in that battle.
Baron, I see Black Elk and LHoffman are not in favor of the Tac hit get to pick a piece every round of battle. Will see how that goes further in game. ( maybe only use get to pick piece on hit 1st round only ).
SBR’s have not happened yet in game to test the IC AA get defense rolls.
As far as Oslo being a victory city we will need to test it in more games. As you can see UK has landed in Norway. With the subs in the Atlantic for Germany, they have the NA of for every German sub in Atlantic, subtract 1 icp from UK’s collect income phase and US’s income collect phase. So that helps delay the invasion I hope.
Commanders in game with the ranking of 1 to 3 giving piece rerolls on misses are making a less impact on battles than last game where we had Commander ranks of 3 to 6 and gave a piece +1 on Attack and defense for every round unless Commander retreated.
Let us know how you play TcB picking on Naval Target.
I still prefer an on going ability from one round to next combat round.
Your experienced report will provide us some clues.
How people like to see three planes on Carrier?
It is not easy to fit 2 or 3 TcBs but 2 Fgs and 1 TcB is quite impressive, don’t you think?
Yes I’ll let u know. 3 plane carriers look good to others. I’ve had those in other games also
Got another turn in game so far ( 3 turns ) with Baron’s piece house rule value changes and Black Elk’s Stg Bomber A0 D0 M6 C5 1 D6 @2 dog fight.
Germany got to bomb London and was able to do 5 damage on a maxium build of 12. So right now they can only build 7 pieces. Germany bought 2 more Heavy Bombers on there turn so more bombing coming.
What I see so far is that Germany can send escorts with Bombers to London but UK or/and US cannot send escorts with Bombers until they take Norway, Holland, Western France or Paris. So for early in game UK/US will have to have 3 figs for intercept basically every turn in London and hope they get AA kills. But in this game now, UK has the Tech, Radar and AA gets a D3 or less for AA shots.
Germany also has the NA Sub-Interdiction where you subtract 1 ICP from UK and US on there collect income phase every turn for every German sub in the Atlantic. So right now Germany has 9 subs in Atlantic and puttin a hurt on the allies.
I don’t know yet if this Bomber C5 going to hurt UK/US in the long run yet. Will see. Got to remember if UK/US get Long Range Aircraft Tech then with airbase I believe they can finally bring escorts. I got to look at map.
Plus on UK’s turn for there event card draw they got a free Fig. and placed on UK.
So this scene is going to be a good one down the road.
Also I see maybe some German bombing may be coming for Stalingrad soon also.
Japan’s turn for there event card draw was spy steals Tech research. So they get any Tech the allies have on Tech chart and keep for themselves. Only Tech allies had was UK’s Radar so now Japan gets Radar for Tech.
So far with this game its going pretty good with the piece, territory value changes and with the NA’s, Tech Steal, Tech, Generals, Weather and Event Cards.
This game is going to change on certain turns which I was hoping for.
With Germany in a good position right now and with Italy sending 80% of there ground to Paris and Moscow maybe the Victory City Oslo will work out.
Thanks Death Heads for map and setup with some changes and Baron for advice with on your HR pieces.
This is the map after 4 turns.
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Germany is bombing London now every turn and ave 11 damage a turn. The Eastern front is moving closer to Moscow but winter is coming. Germany is going to start bombing Russia. Now with the Stg Bomber C5, every country is buying Bombers and Heavy Bombers except Japan. Germany just got Radar Tech. So there AA’s will get to shoot 3 or less against US B-17’s Heavy Bombers that will come on US turn.
Black Elk, we will see how this goes further in game.
Baron, the Heavy Bomber now is being bought by US, UK and Italians. Will see if the C8 is to low.
Russia is now in the retreat mode. Italians coming from the south and Panzers moving in and Germany and Italians ready to SBR.
Japan is doing OK and still controls the money islands and getting close to Calcutta, but the Chinese are strong in this game and are on there ass in French Indo China.
UK lost most control of Africa and Calcutta and navy feeling the Japan pressure. Italians landed in India. UK has Rockets Tech now so they can at least bomb West Germany and will be sending Heavy Bombers with no escorts to bomb Berlin with US Heavy Bombers also.
Italy controls the Med, Africa and sending ground to Paris and Moscow to help support the invasion if it happens. They will also be bombing Russia with Heavy Bombers.
US building Heavy Bombers on both sides of the map. They took over Wake Island and are going to SBR Japan from there.
So Baron it seems like the Heavy Bomber at C8 is the piece to buy. will see how this goes on Pacific side.
China is pretty strong in this game. You have to remember that China only has 4 territories that are worth money. For each 1 ICP they own ( plus any Japan territory ), they get 1 inf for each ICP and 1 art if Burma Road is open.
Still the Fig at A4 D4 is going great with battles going longer with Figs and not over powering the battles.
My concern right now is the Heavy Bomber C8 M7 in this test game. That extra 1 move and with an airbase can go 8 spaces. Will see if this is to strong with UK,US going to be bombing Berlin. Interceptors and AA is going to have to do some kills. Will see.
My concern right now is the Heavy Bomber C8 M7 in this test game. That extra 1 move and with an airbase can go 8 spaces. Will see if this is to strong with UK,US going to be bombing Berlin. Interceptors and AA is going to have to do some kills. Will see.
Sorry to see it spam all over the board…
AB in Black Elk, gives +2Move, yours +1Move. And this change things a lot…
I suggested Heavy StB A2 as AAvs up to 2 D0 M6 C8, 1 hit, SBR A2 D6+2 damage
Compared to bomber
StB A0 D0 M6 C5, 0 hit SBR A2 D6 damage.
With +2AB both bombers gets same range, 8 TTs.
With +1AB and an Heavy with M7, only this one gets +8TTs.
StB C5 cannot compete, unless you also give M7, did you?
3 more IPCs to get a full fighting unit A2 as AA, 1 hit, a +2 damage and 8 moves, is cheap.
In this condition, a 10 IPCs becomes OK.
Does players keep some Fgs in IC’s TTys? If not, clearly unoptimized defense.
To keep things in balance without changing things too much, I advise to rise StBs C5 to M7, it will be more in the spirit of Black Elk idea. It was acknowledge that StBs is able to go 4 TTys back and forth.
So, it doesn’t affect future purchase in your game, but make StB C5 unit much more appealing.
With AB +2M this would be different too:
Got another turn in game so far ( 3 turns ) with Baron’s piece house rule value changes and Black Elk’s Stg Bomber A0 D0 M6 C5 1 D6 @2 dog fight.
Germany got to bomb London and was able to do 5 damage on a maxium build of 12. So right now they can only build 7 pieces. Germany bought 2 more Heavy Bombers on there turn so more bombing coming.
What I see so far is that Germany can send escorts with Bombers to London but UK or/and US cannot send escorts with Bombers until they take Norway, Holland, Western France or Paris. So for early in game UK/US will have to have 3 figs for intercept basically every turn in London and hope they get AA kills. But in this game now, UK has the Tech, Radar and AA gets a D3 or less for AA shots.
Germany also has the NA Sub-Interdiction where you subtract 1 ICP from UK and US on there collect income phase every turn for every German sub in the Atlantic. So right now Germany has 9 subs in Atlantic and puttin a hurt on the allies.
I don’t know yet if this Bomber C5 going to hurt UK/US in the long run yet. Will see**. Got to remember if UK/US get Long Range Aircraft Tech then with airbase I believe they can finally bring escorts**
Yes. There are more Figs in IC TTs.
What I can see is that giving a low combat value to Bomber, here is HStB, is not a deterrent compared to its high mobility.
Maybe if both bombers have same range, it will be possible to see what is most appealing, a low cost C5, no combat value, or a high cost C8, still combat unit.
Bombing damage differential is considered. It is proportionate to cost.
In fact, on a 40 IPCs basis,
8 *D6 damage gives 28 IPCs avg
5 *D6+2 dmg gives 27.5 IPCs avg
I just got to decide if we change cost now in game for bombers or just go with what we have for now. I think best to just keep bomber costs the same and see what the outcome is.
I do love the Stg C5 no value because it can’t just wipe out stuff.
I also just see the Stg bomber C5 hurts the UK more early in game because they can’t get to Berlin like Germany is closer and can make it to London from France or West Germany. Granted UK can bomb West Germany but that IC just gets up to 4 damage max.
@SS:
I just got to decide if we change cost now in game for bombers or just go with what we have for now. I think best to just keep bomber costs the same and see what the outcome is.
I do love the Stg C5 no value because it can’t just wipe out stuff.I also just see the Stg bomber C5 hurts the UK more early in game because they can’t get to Berlin like Germany is closer and can make it to London from France or West Germany. Granted UK can bomb West Germany but that IC just gets up to 4 damage max.
That situations seems historical-like. B-17 Heavy hitter were able to reach Berlin but not Liberator or Halifax.
Maybe, you can just drop Hvy StB combat values to A0, 0 hit, keeping M7 C8, still A2 D6+2 in SBR.
This will balanced things IMO.
How many Bombers were shot down by Fgs interceptors?
None
Ger 2 bombers 3 figs got 1 hit. 3 UK fig interceptors got 0 hits. AA got no hits with a 3 or less do to tech . Got to play it longer to see where this goes .
I will drop the A2 on H Bomber.
@Baron:
@SS:
I just got to decide if we change cost now in game for bombers or just go with what we have for now. I think best to just keep bomber costs the same and see what the outcome is.
I do love the Stg C5 no value because it can’t just wipe out stuff.I also just see the Stg bomber C5 hurts the UK more early in game because they can’t get to Berlin like Germany is closer and can make it to London from France or West Germany. Granted UK can bomb West Germany but that IC just gets up to 4 damage max.
That situations seems historical-like. B-17 Heavy hitter were able to reach Berlin but not Liberator or Halifax.
Maybe, you can just drop Hvy StB combat values to A0, 0 hit, keeping M7 C8, still A2 D6+2 in SBR.
This will balanced things IMO.
How many Bombers were shot down by Fgs interceptors?
Yes its looking that way. It will be more costly for US to keep buying H Bombers that attack Berlin if they get shot down a lot. Germany has the Radar Tech now so AA’s get a 3 or less on die roll for a hit.
Will see how the B-17’s far in the Japan bombing campaign if it happens.
