1942.2 All ships cost 2 ipcs less

@Baron:

@Black_Elk:

I wonder if anyone has tried this?

It would yield the following costs…

Subs 4 ipcs
Transports 5 ipcs destroyers 6 ipcs
Cruisers 10 ipcs
Carriers 12 ipcs
Battleships 18 ipcs

Only the battleship would be outmoded, but that’s fairly unavoidable, their absorption plus bombardment isn’t that potent compared to the destroyer carrier combo, but 18 is still better than 20 haha.

I think the real promise would be super cheap subs, transports and destroyers, to make it much cheaper to develop fleets to face down the mass bomber threat.

This would allow for some nice combos on the water, since transports are a much better buy at 5 ipcs (giving this unit the 5 spot unit that has been missing since AA50). Subs at the same cost as an artillery piece and destroyers at the same cost as a tank, makes both those core ships much more attractive at purchase.

The main balance issue for the first round would probably be a sea lion G1 naval expansion, but sea lion is currently impossible, so this might produce some interest. Allies would have a lot to gain as well. I think players would be much more likely to buy ships all around.

Any thoughts?

I thought further about this issue on cheaper warships.
My solution would be more like this, with only 3 changes, to solve 3 issues:
A lack of an interesting OOB 5 IPCs unit. (AAA doesn’t make an interesting buy.)
Cruiser and Battleship which are not optimized buying at 12 IPCs and 20 IPCs vs DDs and Subs.
To keep a more fairly balance , I would reduced both by 2 IPCs.
Subs, DDs and Carriers are already interesting buy at their OOB cost.

Transports 5 ipcs
Subs 6 ipcs
destroyers 8 ipcs
Cruisers 10 ipcs
Carriers 14 ipcs
Battleships 18 ipcs

I believe that lowering by 2 IPCs all ships (or a scale like Improved shipyard) will affect too much the balance from OOB slight Axis bias toward Allied bias.

Germany cannot divert all his money on sea.
A lot of Russian territories need to be kept by Germany to get a high income and prevent Russia to grow out of hand.

When lowering DDs or Subs by 1 IPC, it means that USA and UK, both save 1 IPC per DD or Sub put on the board.
So it is a 2:1 against Germany.

All A&A games seems to be based on some time ticking bomb against Axis.
Axis must keep as much as possible all his costlier start up units (planes and warships) while dealing a lot of damage on Allies powers in the opening turn. On the long run, Axis usually have less and less units (compared to the initial set up) while Allies are growing steadily.

Making the replacement of this expensive warships too easy would compromise the balance.

I believe this high cost of warships is an important piece of the “ticking time bomb” and it is make to give a few rounds to Axis powers to reach an economical even point against Allies.

Lowering the price of all ships (to increase earlier actions) would hastened the Axis demise.

However, lowering only defenseless transports to the 5 IPCs gap could increase early small skirmishes and maybe a Sea Lion threat but would probably imply to sacrifice some of them as easier targets.

So, my guess is mostly on trying the 5 IPCs transport alone.
(Your people could also probably accept more easily this small change from OOB.)
Since it is defenseless, lowering its cost doesn’t have any consequences on combat values balance, unlike changing the cost between warships.

On this matter, I always prefered to keep this cost ratio between these 4 units:
1 DD + 1 Cruiser = 1 BB
Also in G40, 2 DDs cost the same as 1, 2 hits Carrier A0 D2.
In 1942.2, 1 A1 D2 Carrier cost must be lower than 2 DDs but higher than 2 Subs.

In 1942.2, 1 A1 D2 Carrier cost must be lower than 2 DDs but higher than 2 Subs.
OR 1 A1 D2 Carrier cost must cost twice a defenseless transport.

Applying these ratios above to a 2 IPCs redux for DDs, within my modified roster (Subs and planes), the scale would gives this:

Main units roster: Defenseless Transport A0 D0 cost 5

Submarine A3 D1 cost 6 IPCs (no DD is needed to hit such Sub with planes)
Destroyer A2 D2 cost 6 IPCs (blocks Sub’s Submerge and Stealth Movement on a 1:1 basis)

Classic Transport A0 D1 cost 7 IPCs

Cruiser A3 D3 cost 8 IPCs

Carrier A1 D2, 1 hit, cost 10, hold 2 planes
Carrier A0 D2, 2 hits, cost 12 IPCs, hold 2 planes

Battleship A4 D4 cost 14 IPCs

My special units roster:
Fighter A2 D2 cost 6 (always hit aircraft first)
Tactical Bomber A3 D2 cost 8 (gives +1A/D to 1 Tank paired 1:1 with)
Strategic Bomber A4 D1 cost 10
Special Carrier, A0 D3, 2 hits, cost 12, hold 3 planes
Escort Carrier, A0 D2, 1 hit, cost 7, hold 1 plane, acts like Destroyer

The main roster scale is still easy to remember because it keeps all the usual cost increment:
6, 7, 8, 12, 14 IPCs, only exception is the 10 IPCs 1 hit Carrier.

Decreasing naval unit costs are good, but its stand alone horrible idea since it totally negate all air coverage tactics especially for Germany. Air units should always have overall upper hands against naval units.

Air unit costs should be decreased in this case which will cause an unbalance between air and ground units.

@Navalland said in 1942.2 All ships cost 2 ipcs less:

Decreasing naval unit costs are good, but its stand alone horrible idea since it totally negate all air coverage tactics especially for Germany. Air units should always have overall upper hands against naval units.

Air unit costs should be decreased in this case which will cause an unbalance between air and ground units.

You cannot conquer land without land units, and aircraft provide coverage for both land and sea. This is a good benefit compared with any investment in sea unit. They can becomes powerless if your invasion goes beyond the second round of combat or the second territory within a continent.

So, making Cruiser in par with Fighter or TcB is a small issue, IMO.

If fighter and bomber remain the same then destroyer cost should absolutely not be decreased. Cruiser could be either 10 or 11, but 10 ipc could make battleship very bad unit.

@Navalland said in 1942.2 All ships cost 2 ipcs less:

If fighter and bomber remain the same then destroyer cost should absolutely not be decreased. Cruiser could be either 10 or 11, but 10 ipc could make battleship very bad unit.

I totally agree.

I suggested this scale in a quote below:
Subs, DDs and Carriers are already interesting buy at their OOB cost.

Transports 5 ipcs
Subs 6 ipcs
destroyers 8 ipcs
Cruisers 10 ipcs
Carriers 14 ipcs
Battleships 18 ipcs

The wholescale reduction benefits Allied players who have more money to spend, and require a large naval presence to establish themselves.

@Imperious-Leader said in 1942.2 All ships cost 2 ipcs less:

The wholescale reduction benefits Allied players who have more money to spend, and require a large naval presence to establish themselves.

And if 1942.2 is biased towards the Axis, wouldn’t that in turn help return things to a balance?

-Midnight_Reaper

1942 online Allied players know how to suppress that advantage, and making cheap navy establishes them faster, while the Axis are focused on Land units and not spending money on navies. The cheap ship thing is to benefit players who love “who has the biggest toy boat fleet just sitting around Alaska forcing Japan to park and buy unnecessary boats 3 spaces away for the duration of the game”

@Imperious-Leader which set up do 1942 online players mostly prefer?

Larry Harris Gen-con Setup, so Germany can lose the fighter and bomber in Ukraine and make it even.

@Imperious-Leader I have read even in Larry Harris Gen-con Setup set up, some people still give Allies 6 bid what do you think?

No . No allies bid. Play 1942 Online and see what we do.

What if Russian attack on Ukraine fails? Could Allies still win at that point?

That depends on what you term fail? If they commit 3 tanks 2 fighters and Caucasus units and don’t kill the tanks and or at least a plane, then that attack is a fail, but nobody unless hes a fool will say “Game over- insert 50 cents- do not pass go” Alot of other battles and an accumulation of advantages over turns is what you want. Of course the “Big Battle at Moscow” could change the fortunes of either side. Go to steam and enter my name and #2799 and we can play a game.