Submerging subs

@The-Mink

Panther is right, but I’ll offer one more clarification. Your allies can help you defend, but not attack. Destroyers belonging to your ally don’t participate in your attacks, so they can’t help your air units hit subs even if they’re in the same sea zone.

When defending, they do participate, so a UK destroyer can help US planes hit subs if they’re defending the same sea zone.

Thanks for posting this here. Discord is miserable for actually maintaining/archiving information to the point where I have no idea how it’s become top dog over the years.

If I understand correctly your rephrased question, you want to know if it’s possible to play an A&A board game (like A&A 1942) using the large-scale pre-painted models that are used in these product lines…

A&A Miniatures (Original)
A&A Naval Miniatures
A&A Air Force Miniatures

…rather than by using the very small unpainted plastic sculpts that come in the board game itself.  The short answer is no.  The A&A board games are designed to be played with large numbers of tiny sculpts placed on a map board.  The so-called “A&A miniatures” games use models that are gigantic in size compared to the ones in the board games, and there’s no way that they’d fit on an A&A map board.  Besides, you’d need to buy dozens or even hundreds of these “A&A miniatures” to have enough units to play an A&A board game, which would be fantastically expensive – assuming you could even find them on the market, because they’re a discontinued product line.

In principle, assuming that you owned the required dozens (or hundreds) of “A&A miniatures”, you could theoretically use them to play an A&A board game by keeping all the “A&A miniatures” in labeled groups off the board and representing them on the game map by smaller labeled markers or tiny sculpts…but in essence that would bring you right back to playing the board games with tiny sculpts – which is how they’re meant to be played in the first place.

This is complicated stuff SC, but I believe I have this right:

In your example, if the US initiates combat in a sz in which the US has no destroyers, then J decides whether its subs submerge or surprise strike, not the US.

If the US had a destroyer present, then any subs in a sz in which combat is initiated would be involved. The US cannot decide to ignore them.

If the US placed units in a sz which contained only J subs, then the US can decide whether to initiate combat or ignore those subs. If that US movement occurs during non-combat then combat cannot be initiated.

Please see

@Rulebook:

…
Attacking or defending submarines that choose to submerge are immediately removed from the battle strip and returned to the
game board in the contested sea zone, removing them from the remaining battle sequences.

Note: Decisions on whether attacking and defending submarines will fire or submerge must be made before any dice are rolled
by either side. The attacking player decides first.
…

and

@Rulebook:

…
Once all attacking and defending submarines that conducted a Surprise Strike have fired, the casualties they have generated
are removed from the game and this step is over for this round of combat. As long as there are attacking and/or defending
submarines and no opposing destroyers, this step is repeated during each round of combat. Any hits made during this step that
do not destroy units (such as battleships) remain in effect until the end of the combat.
…

Please ask if anything remains unclear.

@Swift:

So a sub can suprise strike, submerge, then other sea units fire, then defending units fire (excluding submarines), then remove casualties, then press attack, then same sub suprise strikes and submerges, then attacking sea units fire… and so on until defeat or retreat of attacker?

No, a sub can either surprise strike or submerge. If it submerges it will be out for the rest of the battle.
If it decides to surprise strike in the first round of combat and survives this round of combat, it can decide
to submerge or to attack again in the next round of combat.

HTH :-)

I thought since a destroyer nullifies a subs specials that meant it could see the sub and would have to engage in battle since the sub would not have an option to submerge.

I guess it comes down to the choice of the destroyer.

Thanks again wittmann.

My friends and I games this weekend should go much more smoothly with all this additional “verified” info.

Excellent!

Thanks for the quick reply wittmann.

Played AA Classic many years ago and just picked up AA 1942.2.

This Forum will prove to be extremely helpful.

It’s the attacker’s option whether he wants to stop and fight the sub or move on through.  If he attacks the sub then the destroyer must end its movement in that sea zone for the turn.

Last paragraph on Page 11 of the rulebook states that “An enemy submarine and/or transport does not block any of your units’ movement, nor does it prevent loading or offloading that sea zone. As the moving player you have the option of attacking an enemy submarine that shares a sea zone with you.”