Thoughts on Industrial Complexes

Personally, I am a fan of all ICs, Naval bases and air bases vulnerable to getting destroyed and removed from the board (except for maybe major ICs on capitals).

I agree with you cmdr jen, its a pity and very frustrating losing a complex to China.
So what if we let fate decide and the assailant rolls 2d6 of damage on the complex.

@Minor:

I agree with you cmdr jen, its a pity and very frustrating losing a complex to China.
So what if we let fate decide and the assailant rolls 2d6 of damage on the complex.

I think thats the risk the Japs take for building a complex and not protecting it. I believe that purchasing and placing ICs should be a huge decision and an ongoing investment, not something to do whimsically.

I think I saw a rule once where a defender could take hits on an IC that was in a territory under attack. That would be a nice rule change. It would put more teeth in the defense of major areas and also result in more SBR as attackers would have a reason to try and hit an IC before you attacked it.

Also I agree that china should be able to build artillery and fighters at a captured IC.

@Cmdr:

I like that. Attacking Berlin would give Germany 20 extra hits and it would solve the Sea Lion “problem”

I don’t think sea lion is a problem, I like the possibility of Germany taking London before they are forced to fight on a second front with Russia. I feel that the Europe theater is far more balanced in that sense (with sea lion) than the Pacific theater.

I will admit this is not a bad house rule, free wounds for a capitals IC.  I wouldn’t make them some astronomical number though, perhaps 2 wounds for a Major and 1 for a minor?  That way the ablative wounds are just an asset to beef defense and not the backbone of the defense.

I wish I could remember where I saw that rule, I’m fairly sure it was a house rule somewhere. But yeah 20 free hits is an awful lot. Maybe 1 hit generates 5 hits on the IC that would give minors 1 and majors 4, still quite a lot when you are hitting London or Moscow.  This might favor the allies too much.

Why not one die roll of damage once the territory is lost on each facility
Would totaly screw germany when it takes over france so there would have to be rules to compensate

I had a Soviet NA that was:

Scorched Earth: For each round of combat that takes place before you are defeated or the enemy retreats, you may inflict one point of strategic damage on any facillities in the territory.

I find myself wondering why China would need a IC? China can only build inf. & art. and can place them in any China teritory they occupy at the end of her turn. This includes the Chinese teritories Japan owns at the begining of the game.

I agree why would china need to build at an IC?  That takes away from their ability to pop up in any rice paddy they choose.  With China having an IC it just becomes a bigger target for Japan to attack.

China’s main weakness is not being able to march into Korea.  In the late game Japan can ignore a resurgent China because they are trapped in their homeland.

Remember China is the only power that starts with their capital under enemy control….  Perhaps if Shanghai is liberated they begin to function as a normal power.  Although I like your suggestion of build restrictions Jen, I don’t think China should ever be building a navy or bombers.

@Krieghund:

@Cmdr:

The complexes are not destroyed when China takes them, they just cannot use them.

You’re thinking of the AA50 rules.  In AA40, industrial complexes on Chinese territories are destroyed when liberated.

China had not developed it natural resources at that time to be able to make use of the IC. If they cannot use it then destroying it represents scorched earth policy. That said I wonder how they were able to make rifled tubes for modern artillary. Maybe the artillary represents some lend lease from the U.S.

@Cmdr:

@Fishmoto37:

@Krieghund:

@Cmdr:

The complexes are not destroyed when China takes them, they just cannot use them.

Your suggesting that the Japanese might have left some material at the IC site. But would the Chinese have had the knowledge to use the machinery?

You’re thinking of the AA50 rules.  In AA40, industrial complexes on Chinese territories are destroyed when liberated.

China had not developed it natural resources at that time to be able to make use of the IC. If they cannot use it then destroying it represents scorched earth policy. That said I wonder how they were able to make rifled tubes for modern artillary. Maybe the artillary represents some lend lease from the U.S.

Wouldnt they have some materials in process of being made, some raw materials to build more, etc, etc, etc on site at a factory?

China didn’t have the industrialized capacity to build planes, tanks, etc during ww2.  Even capturing a industrial center, what are you suggesting?  That China could build an A6m on their own because they captured some aircraft?  They had years of access to soviet planes between 36 and 39, and they couldn’t effectively keep them in the skies even with soviet help, and those planes were outclassed by the japanese air force anyway.

Suggesting that the chinese could capture a japanese factory and understand how the raw materials went together to create an aircraft in the span represented by the game?  I’m dubious.  Even the Japanese had access to the me262 plans and parts and they could only get to prototype and test planes of anything that tech assisted with.  Developing and mastering new technology takes time, money, and manpower, and I think the reason we didn’t see chinese industrialization isn’t because they didn’t have access to captured materials.

The technical expertise wasn’t there at the time.  Any sufficiently effective design would take years to prototype and refine and more years to build and train sufficiently to use.

Even from the industrialized nations, capturing equipment didn’t mean we knew how it worked, but at least they had developed similar technology on their own and could replace or modify with our own tech.

It comes down to the fact the major and minor factories are abstracted.  As far as I’m concered they represent staging points, training areas, bases, etc, not simply factories.  And even capturing, it’s your own equipment.  If you didn’t have the equipment or design, how on earth could you build it?